She is the minister who will put an end at masks, the essential emblem of the fight against covid. She was also the one who turned the spanish vaccination against the virus in a example of effectiveness about which colleagues from the continent have come to ask. And now she will be the one to start the european funds that will allow the health deficits of this country to decrease. When we spoke with her, on the sixteenth floor of her work headquarters, the news had just come out on the networks that the Irregularities about the purchase of masks, which affect the Madrid City Council, among other entities, also has to do with the management of civil servants in their department. She talks about that, and many other things, in this interview for which she and the journalist took off the gadget that from the next day 20 no longer has to be essential in our faces.
-Jorge Guillén had two verses for the same thing: “the world is well made & rdquor; and “the world is poorly made.” You have experienced a very serious moment in life in Spain. After that, do you think the world is wrong or right?
-I believe that the world is well made, only that sometimes it spoils us. Lately too fast, huh? Because human beings are capable of committing great atrocities, such as the war in Ukraine, and sometimes the very dynamics of life lead to bad times. But I am one of those who likes to always see the glass half full and always with the possibility of continuing to fill it. And I have an engine: hope.
-Soon the mask will no longer be mandatory. How do you see what has happened?
-I believe that we still lack time to have the perspective of the impact that the pandemic has had on our lives. It is true that it has hit us in what makes us most human: social relations. And there has been an impact not only physical, but also psychic, due to isolation. But the response we have had to the virus has also been unprecedented. Because for the first time in the history of humanity, with science as an ally, we have been able to overcome adversity. With errors, yes, because at the beginning we did not have navigation charts. Now we have a legacy of how to be and how not to be.
-We have also seen that, even in the darkest and most difficult times, people are able to take advantage of the evil of others.
-That’s the most indecent part. It is true that this has existed, but it has been a minority. I am left with the exemplary behavior of the citizens of this country, of a public science that has lived up to the international level. And to that execrable behavior we must show our most absolute rejection.
-That behavior has been related to the mayor of Madrid and the president of the Community of Madrid. In both cases, those involved are relatives. But now it has also touched the Ministry of Health.
-It has nothing to do with it. They are distant and different matters. At the Ministry we have adhered to current regulations on contracting, even following the recommendations of the Contracting Consultative Board. Therefore, questioning this Ministry is one of the many things of Vox. That is why I am convinced that we will come out well. Because in this Ministry there have been days and nights of work without rest, where despite adversity, the guard has never been lowered. Sometimes I have wondered where we got energy. José Saramago used to say that ‘energies return when hope returns.’ That has been our engine: hope. Therefore, my appreciation to all public employees.
-How has your relationship with danger been? How has he, as a human being, faced the days and nights of this time?
-During all this time I have not had a first-person thought. I have always thought in the plural, of us. There has always been the best disposition. But I am not only referring to myself, but to the entire Government of Spain.
-Has there ever been a more dangerous moment than another?
-There have been moments of difficulty. Who has not been in difficulty throughout this pandemic? I joined in January 21 and I think that Salvador Illa had it worse than me. But what I have seen is that, little by little, we have been able to overcome difficult moments.
-What was it that encouraged the Government to end the mandatory use of the mask?
-The evolution of things. First: the high vaccination level that we have in our country. There are 39 million people, over 12 years of age, with a full guideline. 24 million with booster doses. Around one and a half million children, between five and 12 years old, who are also already vaccinated. In other words, Spain is an international benchmark in terms of vaccination. That is the point that changes everything: the protection we have in our body. The latest variant of the virus, the omicron, has had a lower lethality and that has led us to consider that the pandemic is evolving. From the consensus, we have stipulated a new vigilance: we are no longer counting case by case. We continue to monitor the disease, but now we focus on the most vulnerable people.
-Would you advise me to take it off?
-I would advise you to make responsible use of it.
-How is a responsible use of the mask?
-During this time the citizenry has accredited maturity and exemplary character. There will be spaces in which the mask will continue to be mandatory, taking into account vulnerability. When we go to a hospital, it is understood that we are in a vulnerable environment. When we go to a health center, too. Or when we go by public transport. In a bus, in the subway or on a plane, you have to use it. Then there are recommendations: if we are in a shopping center, I would wear it. That is responsible use.
-The mask has become an article of litigation. It is surprising that there are people who have proposed to turn it into a fraudulent business.
-That’s what I was telling you about the unacceptable. That there are people like this… it is totally execrable. And it must be clarified, act with the maximum forcefulness.
“I’m not going to get him out of there, am I?”
-What have you learned in these dangerous times regarding the value of a minister?
Life is a daily learning. Every day you wake up with the determination to give your best and learn from others. In this time, I have learned a lot from people who thought differently from me, something that is a vital enrichment. Also from my fellow ministers and the Prime Minister. I see a very committed team.
-I think fear, no. There was no time for fear. Not even when I had covid. Perhaps anguish yes, but fear no. Hope can with everything.
-What caused the anguish?
The first two days. At the beginning of the pandemic I had a control test and I tested positive. It was when the total isolation. I was like this for 30 days, in a small room and… as one is not born for that. But, well, I had to put the anguish aside and get to work, to telecommute in this case.
-Can you specify with which people with whom you did not agree at the beginning and later began to agree?
-It wasn’t that I didn’t agree either, maybe it was that we could have different positions on a specific issue. Sometimes we tend to go with a preconceived reality of things and reality is stubborn. And you learn. You learn that you have to advance little by little, guided by your instinct, but above all by rigor.
-The word rigor is contradictory with some things that happened. For example with residences for the elderly. Also in primary care.
-The rigor is not incompatible. If there is a backbone service in the health sector, it is primary care. Therefore, our efforts are turning to dedicate what it deserves. It is true that primary care has been impacted in this sixth wave, because there were not so many hospital admissions and people mainly went to their family doctor. That is why we have approved a special budget to meet the needs of primary care. Because talking about the National Health System is talking about its health professionals and giving them the resources they need, such as specialized training. Since Pedro Sánchez became president, the offer for MIRs has increased by 32%. It is also true that time is required to recover the part lost in previous years, when not enough places were offered.
-Has this pandemic revealed public health failures that have not yet been resolved?
-The pandemic has revealed two very important things: the strength of the National Health System and the need to improve issues such as public health surveillance. That is why we have now focused on the creation of the state network, which had not been done, despite being in the 2011 law. Another need for improvement is the development of health intelligence: the internet of things, the big data… applied to health. The National Registry of Vaccines has been key, which was done for the first time from the Digital Health Secretariat, which we created in the year 20. Also the preventive capacity: good eating habits, sports… diseases are avoided. And another fundamental thing: diagnostic capacity. Now we are going to invest around 800 million euros to renew and/or expand the technological equipment. This will mean that all the hospitals in this country that need it, according to objective criteria, will renew their technological equipment. That will be a great leap in terms of oncology diagnosis, rare diseases, neurodegenerative diseases…
– Does that mean that Spanish health has been very neglected for a long time?
-It means that we are taking advantage of an opportunity: European funds. Something that President Sánchez clung to, by the way. Because Europe had to meet Europe. That means that we must take advantage to give a boost to public health in this country.
-In the time of Salvador Illa, the symbol was the balconies. In the time of Carolina Darias, what would the metaphor be?
-I believe that the new horizon that we are designing. Eduardo Galeano said that utopia was always on the horizon, right? We have managed to vaccinate this entire country, I think that can be a good symbol.
-Have you cried during this time?
-I cry very easily. I am an easy tear. I remember getting emotional in the Balearic Islands when I went to the childhood vaccination campaign. There were some clowns and there was a boy, Martin, who saw me, threw himself at my neck and wouldn’t let me go. And he wouldn’t let me go. And I got excited. I also cried a lot, with joy, when we reached 70% vaccination.
-If you react like this to goodness, in these times we are seeing evil. What has been your personal reaction?
-Evil doesn’t stop me. It keeps me going.
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– Thank you very much, Madam Minister.
-Thank you very much.