Carol Chouchani frees the work team Climate Change and Sustainability of Natural Resources of the UN in the Arab region. She has arrived in Barcelona to participate in the cycle of MedDialogues +2030 debates on sustainable development organized by the IEMedthe Club of Rome and the La Caixa Foundation.
Despite all the evidence we have, there are still people who insist on denying the existence of climate change. What would I say to them?
Deny climate change just because of what is happening this year? How many extreme phenomena have occurred? Something is not normal. I think even the staunchest deniers realize that the extreme flooding that occurred in Derna, Libya, is not normal. The wildfires that hit Greece, the recurring drought here in Spain, and then the flash floods. Something is not normal. Something is changing. I don’t think anyone can say that something isn’t changing right now.
To what do you attribute the blindness of the deniers?
There are people who do not want to make commitments now that will affect the future. So admitting that we must act against climate change means that we must act now. And that would mean changing our behavior, transforming our economies and recognizing the inequalities that exist in the impacts of climate change between rich and poor countries and in rich and poor societies within countries. And, again, recognize that we have to transform from an economy focused on certain industries to one that can be more sustainable with more sustainable production and consumption models that allow for a transformative economy based on new technologies, new innovation and ecological approaches. Any change scares people.
Do you think that in matters of fighting climate change everything comes down to investments, money?
Yes, we talk about investment but not only in large companies but also in people.
Is it difficult to change your thinking?
It is as difficult as adapting a piece of equipment, a car, to make it more modern and renewable. It’s about having to get rid of the entire educational history of someone who has been programmed to be a petroleum engineer or a coal miner or be involved in a more polluting industry, such as cement or heavy phosphates. They are important sectors. It involves changing the way of thinking of your workforce through education. It’s not just the business owners, but also their employees, who are sometimes reluctant to move forward. There is a lot of talk about the transition to a greener economy. There are many new employment opportunities. There are many new investment opportunities. But you have to get it connected and get that transition and someone to help pay for that transition.
Is the Libya catastrophe an example of what is going to happen?
I hope I don’t see him again. It’s dramatic. Really dramatic. The seas are warming as much as the land and we see how the volatility of the hydrological cycle is changing. Yes, they are accustomed to rain in the area of Libya where the catastrophe occurred, but not in those quantities. The infrastructures, the dams, fell one by one. The Government of the country, a country mired in a long political crisis, has not been able to increase the necessary investment in infrastructure. And this is not the only case.
Other parts of the Mediterranean are also experiencing flash flooding.
Italy, Greece, even Spain. The loss and damage caused by these flash floods could be avoided just by thinking about it. When building or maintaining infrastructure, it is enough to clean the drains. So there are no impossible solutions. Must think. And that is why we work a lot on climate integration, not only in the country, not only in homes, but in all sectors: transportation, agriculture, water…
It is indisputable that water will become scarce. Do you think we should be prepared for confrontations, even wars, over control of water?
I don’t know if the war is in terms of physical military aggression, but there will be political conflicts over control of water. There are already indicators. But there are instruments that are increasingly being applied that have the potential to alleviate the risk of conflict and support cooperation.
If there are problems over water control, will we see them only in poor countries or also in the most developed ones?
It is a universal problem.
Another serious problem is the heating of the water.
When there are more emissions in the atmosphere, the land warms, but the water also warms. And when water, that is, the oceans that cover most of the planet, warm, evaporation accelerates, the hydrological cycle accelerates and more extreme events are generated.
From your point of view, where does the solution lie?
It has to be an interdisciplinary, cooperative and integrated response that involves technology, the training of new generations and governance. And, of course, the financing. Ensure that money, investments and budgets are allocated to adapting to climate impacts and not just mitigating.
Can the effects of climate change become worse?
Of course they could be worse. There has to be action. The question is how much the current generation is willing to invest to ensure that our children and their children at mid-century are not just living in air-conditioned buildings and unable to farm the land. Maybe the solution will be for us to only generate food from greenhouses. Maybe that’s what the future will have to be. It’s not that I personally believe that human civilization will disappear, but we will not have the quality of life and beauty that we have now. And we have to work together because if we don’t transform now, we will be forced to transform. It will change our way of life.
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What can we do as individuals?
Everyone can change the way they travel, choose between plastic and paper, among other aspects. In Europe and Spain, we don’t use plastics as much. Small actions make a difference in the fight against climate change, without forgetting raising awareness. And demand that politicians act, that they have climate change on their agenda.