Great Depression, unemployment, Nazis openly rioting in the streets: In the fourth season of “Babylon Berlin” the Golden Twenties are finally over. We spoke to the directors Tom Tykwer, Achim von Borries and Henk Handloegten as well as the actress Liv Lisa Fries (Lotte) about the new season, the rise of National Socialism and dance marathons in the midst of social misery.
The interviews with the directors and Liv Lisa Fries were conducted separately.
The 4th season starts a year after the end of the 3rd, now it’s New Year’s Eve 1930/1931. How has the Berlin of the series changed in the meantime?
Achim von Borries: We end in the last season with the stock market crash in 1929, that was fundamental for the Weimar Republic. There was mass unemployment and poverty of unimaginable proportions. The delicate blossoms of this republic, which we were able to show before, have withered. Parliamentary democracy is at an end, it was undermined by presidential decrees. That is of course a huge difference. But it is also important to say: the Nazis are not yet in power. Nevertheless, disputes such as the Kudamm riots in 1931 could still happen under the democratically organized police force and actually still in a constitutional state. This erosion of the rule of law also keeps us busy throughout the season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNi2a22ZvDk
The National Socialists play a central role for the first time this season. Was it the intention not to focus too much on this topic from the beginning of the series and also to show other facets of Weimar society?
Henk Handloegten: We were always determined not to give them so much space at first. Because in the discussion at the time – which is of course always an interpretation, unfortunately we weren’t in the time machine and catapulted ourselves there – you can see that the real political perception of the Nazis before 1930 was very small. The election results were actually pathetic, until 1929 the results were barely perceptible. And that then changed diametrically, along with the unleashing crisis in the world economy and of course the fears that were growing among the population.
“In this series we also want to tell that National Socialism didn’t just appear out of nowhere, but came from within. And that also applies to characters that you have grown fond of.”
How does this slow rise of National Socialism affect the characters?
Achim von Borries: In this series we also want to tell that National Socialism did not just appear out of nowhere, but came from within. And that also applies to characters that you have grown fond of. Because that’s how it was in 1933 or 1938, a lot of people, as we see them in “Babylon”, would have voted for Hitler or had a positive attitude towards National Socialism. There are also a lot of people in our figure panopticon who definitely wouldn’t have done it. They might not be alive in 1939 either. The important thing about a topic like the depiction of National Socialism is to admit it: It’s not just the others. Normally, in films or stories, the Nazis are always the others. We never wanted that and have always tried to tell it differently.
Ms. Fries, where does Charlotte Ritter stand this season?
Liv Lisa Fries: There’s more dancing again, I think that’s great, it was almost non-existent in the last season. Charlotte becomes more active again. And also opens up more, can allow more closeness and vulnerability. I think we’re going back a bit to the Charlotte in the first two seasons, and I think that’s great. I’m incredibly proud to be part of this series. Not necessarily as a single individual, but really about how it works as an overall conglomerate. All characters are important. For example, in one episode, Wegener is the assistant [des Industriellen Alfred] Nyssen in the foreground. I think that’s the beauty of Babylon, that you dedicate yourself so much to the characters.
Has your view of the Weimar Republic changed since you started the series?
Achim von Borries: Total. Also on the city. We’ve all moved here and with the series we’re making a declaration of love for our adopted country. Even though I’ve lived in Berlin for thirty years, this city suddenly came so close to me because you get to know its past. And as far as the Weimar Republic is concerned, I saved it earlier as an attempt at the first German democracy. But this time was also the dawn of modernity for Germany. After the war, Germany exploded like a cauldron, in all arts, in science, from film to music. To be honest, it’s also incredibly fun to resurrect and immerse yourself in this world.
“People have indulged in pleasure in a delusional hope that this can conquer the catastrophe. They ran to the tea dances with the last penny, even though they could hardly afford the food.”
The title song of the season is “Ein Tag wie Gold”, in which Max Raabe sings: “What do I care about balance sheets, let’s dance”. What does this title express?
Achim von Borries: If you say to yourself, this is the hit of the hour, then there is something abysmal in it. Gallows humor which, from our point of view, reflects the energy of the late Weimar years. People have indulged in pleasure in a delusional hope that this can conquer disaster. They ran to the tea dances with the last penny, although they could hardly afford the food. It’s an intriguing contradiction, and the song lovingly illustrates it.
Liv Lisa Fries: I think “A Day Like Gold” is really, really good. “What do I care about balance sheets, let’s dance” – very good. i’m a fan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft_zdEBxhjw
Mr. Tykwer, what was the biggest directorial challenge when shooting the new season?
Tom Tykwer: For me it was all these events of the dance marathon, which are also a symbol of the late Weimar years. It starts as a big dance event that everyone is looking forward to, where everyone starts with enthusiasm, and then it becomes more and more a struggle for survival, a bitter struggle for survival. That’s why people went there, they risked their lives to go home with a thousand Reichsmarks at the end.
Liv Lisa Fries: It was incredibly exhausting. I would say that at the end of the day you don’t see how exhausting it was on the show. I trained an awful lot for it, we had an incredible amount of dance lessons. But this whole sequence is really great.
The new season is an adaptation of Volker Kutscher’s third Gereon Rath thriller “Goldstein”. An important role is played by the eponymous character Goldstein, played by Israeli actor Mark Ivanir. What kind of person is this?
Tom Tykwer: Above all, it is a Jewish man who comes from America and at the same time brings the gangster film genre to the city, which is already seething in the city. He has strayed greatly from his roots, and history is bringing him back there. This gave us a great opportunity to visit and illuminate a living space, an environment that played a major role in Berlin at the time, namely the Jewish living environment. So Eastern European Jewry with roots in Kraków, in Chernivtsi, in Lemberg, in today’s Ukraine, in Odessa, which had their ghettos and shtetls everywhere. That was the Scheunenviertel in Berlin, an elementary space in the city. It has only since been razed to the ground and is now gentrified. Hardly anything is left of the spirit that prevailed in the historical center of Berlin at the time. And we wanted to bring that to life.
Toni (Irene Böhm), Charlotte Ritter’s sister, gets a bigger role this season. She takes on the role of a character named Alex in the novel “Goldstein”. Mr. Handloegten, was that planned for a long time?
Henk Handloegten: Of course we hoped to adapt Goldstein at some point. That’s why we were relatively reserved when it came to this Jewish-Orthodox world. We knew we’d get there at some point with the character Goldstein. And it was similar with Toni. We knew that there were two characters moving towards each other, the character Alex from Kutscher’s novel, and then our Toni. And we took that into account in season three, that she’d run away and run away from home and live on the streets. In addition, Irene Böhm has become such a great actress. She was just a kid acting along, and now she’s really an actress.
Liv Lisa Fries: She is now a young woman in her own right. It was great. i like irene [Böhm] really like. She’s very precise and it’s nice to see her growing up, getting a lot more experienced too, but staying true to herself.
“One would like to be Ms. Behnke at this time.”
Are there any characters whose development surprised you?
Henk Handloegten: I’m a big fan of our perspective on the nobility and industrialists who have catapulted themselves into this hubris, this utter hubris. We think that can’t be said drastically and crazy enough. What Nyssen and Helga performed for us really surprised even us. We’re not trying to teach history. If we want to tell something that is historically interesting, we have to link it to protagonists. And since we have quite a lot, we’ve always managed to give a face to the madness and a name to the character. But there is also another character who develops in a direction that Volker Kutscher did not have in mind, and that is the widow Behnke. She does what is right in an unbelievably serious way, with holy seriousness, and surpasses herself. One would like to be Ms. Behnke at this time.
Do you have a favorite character other than Lotte?
Liv Lisa Fries: Of course I like Behnke a lot, Fritzi Haberlandt’s character, and I also like Karl Markovics [als Journalist Samuel Kattelbach]. With the two at home, I really get along, it’s funny, I think it’s very nice.
Compared to the situation 5 years ago, when the first season began, there is now a veritable glut of series. Has it become more difficult to assert yourself there?
Tom Tykwer: We obviously picked a good time to start because you could still make a proper mark back then. I’m very happy about that. With the fourth season, we were concerned that many series have a certain wear and tear over time because the topic might only last for one or two seasons. The opposite is the case here, both historically and through the Kutscher universe. And we had made up our minds that this season must also generate an increase in intensity, that after ten minutes it’s clear that you have to watch it to the end. And I personally feel that it has succeeded.
As an actor, do you notice that the three directors have their own signature?
Liv Lisa Fries: Of course, they all have a specific vision, but you can tell there are differences in how they work. They all have their own cameramen and teams. It’s always a different approach, but always interesting and inspiring. Like a paint box. Now let’s take some more of the color, a little purple, and then green again. It’s interesting how the different directors also bring out different colors in the character.
Do you have any wishes for the upcoming season or seasons?
Liv Lisa Fries: Not really. I also like my job because I’m happy to get inspiration from outside. I can do whatever I want with my life. I’m happy to get other impulses and always find it extremely inspiring what the three of them do [Regisseure] develop. I also read it and sometimes help shape it and tell me what I’m still missing or where I still see a need for development, but basically I trust the three of them extremely in development, and that has always paid off so far.