It is almost an unguarded moment, towards the end of the conversation, when Carola Schouten (44) formulates a little less carefully. She announces a trend break in the treatment of social assistance recipients. The human dimension should be reinstated in assistance, fines and recoveries should no longer be imposed automatically for every mistake.
Social security is close to the heart of Carola Schouten, Minister for Poverty Policy, Participation and Pensions and Deputy Prime Minister on behalf of the ChristenUnie. As a civil servant she once started her career at the ministry, as an employee of the CU faction, and as a member of parliament she was a social security specialist. And no, the past four years as agriculture minister have certainly not been a chore. “After all, I’m a farmer’s daughter.”
Now she is breaking with the welfare policy of the past decades. Such as the tightening of the Rutte I cabinet in 2012, which imposed a fine on all donations, including from the food bank. Last year the ‘shopping affair’ received a lot of attention: the municipality of Wijdemeren demanded more than 7,000 euros back in groceries that the mother of a person entitled to social assistance had done for her for years. Although the matter was more complicated, the message stuck: a person entitled to social assistance should not receive anything as a gift, not even from his own parents.
The strict demands made on welfare recipients are based on the idea that people tend to be evil. Now turn that around to: man is inclined to good?
‘Man is capable of good! The law is now formulated too much on the basis of mistrust. The image of man is also incorrect, that everyone acts rationally, that they oversee everything. From that perspective, a mistake is punished as fraud.
‘People want to do the right things, but sometimes they find themselves in circumstances that make it impossible. We have made the system very complex, so that not everyone can oversee everything. Mind you, we must continue to tackle fraud, that is the basis of solidarity, but the difference between an error and fraud has faded.’
Where does this insight come from? The strict rules were introduced ten years ago during Rutte I with the support of VVD, CDA, PVV and SGP.
‘Over the years there has been a shift in thinking about the citizen who oversees everything; that it doesn’t work that way. Through a series of incidents too, such as the shopping affair. That is why social security has become central in the coalition agreement. There is now room for customization. The law is now so strictly formulated that there is hardly any space.’
You come up with a package of proposals, options actually, but they still have to be worked out.
‘Yes, it also requires a lot of amendment of the law. There are also options. But to make sure I don’t do something out of good will and it doesn’t work out elsewhere, we’re looking at that very closely. But I do want to say: this is what we are going to do.
‘Now young people who apply for social assistance first have to look for work for a month, after which the application starts. That will take another two months. In very exceptional cases, it is possible to deviate from this, but this rarely happens. There is a reluctance to act at the counter, also because such an exception must be explained in detail.
‘If a young person is or is at risk of becoming homeless and you say: first look for a job for ten weeks, then that person will be out of the picture. Or he might show up at the shelter. If you help that young person very quickly, it will be better for everyone. Eliminating that four-week waiting period will be easier.’
And gifts, such as food from the food bank or groceries paid for by family?
‘I don’t see anything wrong with people looking out for each other. Help each other. If you work against looking after each other, that goes against my social background. Family care, for example. That is a monetary activity. Do I have to resist if someone on social assistance provides informal care? Or impose the cost-sharer standard if you take in someone in need? My motivation is to make sure we look after each other. The moment you take in a friend who is dealing with domestic violence, or someone who is homeless, and you receive a discount on your social assistance benefit: I think that is a fine on compassion. We shouldn’t want that.
‘There is also a duplicity in it. Because in a way I’m glad the food bank is here, especially with the current inflation. I am especially happy that there are people who volunteer at the food bank to help others. I think that’s social cohesion. A society where we no longer have that, or where we make very strict laws, that will be a cold society. I don’t believe in that.
‘Municipalities now deal very differently with donations to welfare recipients. As a result, it is also unclear what is and is not allowed. Also with regard to other ‘money-valued’ activities – such as cleaning at neighbors or selling something on Marktplaats. Some municipalities allow that, others do not. My dilemma now is this: if I lock it to an amount and it’s like someone just above that gets something, what does that mean? Think of someone who is in danger of being evicted because of rent debt. Someone pays that rent debt, so that he can continue to live, but just blows through that limit. We want to arrange this quickly, but simply drawing a line produces new issues in practice.’
You keep mentioning the complexity of the system. But assistance is assistance, right?
‘For example, I want to broaden the opportunity to earn extra. But I have to check very carefully whether that has any influence on surcharges. If you start earning too much extra, you will have less left over if the allowances become lower as a result. We have a very sophisticated system of assistance, allowances, waivers – those kinds of aspects. When I turn a knob, it affects the whole gear.
‘Now you can earn something extra from social assistance for a maximum of six months. Then people are well and truly on their way and then they have to stop. That is not very motivating to get started. It’s what I just said, I have to calculate it very well with all the cogs. We’ll come up with a proposal, but I want to make sure people don’t lose out.’