Ernest Maragall (Barcelona, 1943), president of the ERC group in Barcelona, unexpectedly announced last Friday that in December he will leave the city council and politics. Days before, on November 10, the number two of the group, Elisenda Alamany, verbalized that Maragall had to take this step, in a statement that the still councilor, who was taking a plane to the US, did not know was going to happen.
This is where his political life ends. Did she imagine it like that?
I had never thought about what ending I wanted to have. It is the ending you find, and above all it is the one I have chosen myself. Both in the how and in the when.
When he stood up on the floor and announced that he would leave in December, how many people knew he would leave?
Some people. Those who had to know.
More than five, less than five?
Less than five.
Are you present in the room?
A.
Sitting next to you among the ERC councilors?
No.
You became mayor of ERC in 2018 by appointment of the party leadership. In 2019 he won, but for the first time the winner was not mayor.
Not only is it that for the first time the winner was not mayor, but the alliance that generated an alternative majority did not respond to any imaginable one. It was a forced majority, with an objective that was not to build something but to prevent it from happening, to avoid a Republican mayor.
“(In the 2019-2023 mandate) We could not fail to take into account that despite its spurious origin that government was supposedly progressive. Yes, we consider that the general interest of the city took precedence”
When that mandate began, you and your group put aside your anger and collaborated with the government of Ada Colauwhich had PSC as a partner. Relevant support.
Contributions, yes; collaboration, no. We could not help but take into account that despite its spurious origin, that government was supposedly progressive. Yes, we consider that the general interest of the city took precedence.
And given the electoral result in May, when ERC lost five of its 10 councilors, is the bitter lesson that constructive opposition has no prize?
There is a time when this attitude reached a limit, and we said that we would not support the budget. It was at the end of 2021, regarding the 2022 budget. That clear attitude of the group, which also sought to break with the inertia that could drag us down, was followed by an exercise of blackmail by the Comuns (which made it conditional to support the budgets of the Generalitat to receive support for the municipal ones).
And the game forced the ERC group to allow the approval of the Barcelona accounts with their abstention.
There were passionate internal debates on substance, concept and opportunity. What was better to serve the general interest? That the city council and Generalitat had both budgets or that neither had it? I think that the best thing from ERC’s point of view was that the Generalitat had that budget and Barcelona its own, with our abstention, without our enthusiasm. And that, I agree, determined our political destiny. It was decisive for the elections, because it characterized us as someone who supported the Colau government. And as the elections became a referendum on Colau, we were labeled and categorized as someone who was not an alternative, but rather an ally, a support, a crutch for Colau. It is a significant part of the explanation of what happened.
“I would almost say that from ERC we gave Trias the space of a critical alternative, there was an open space. It was occupied by someone (for Junts) who had not lifted a finger in four years and who knew how to personalize it in the figure of former mayor Trias”
Is the other party Trias’ candidacy?
I would almost say that from ERC we gave him the space. If we were not or could not be or had decided not to act as a critical alternative, there was an open space. Who could occupy it? The PP and Ciudadanos? Obviously not. The PSC tried to occupy it, and was partly successful, with some tactical skill, in (Collboni’s) departure from the government. But there remained an immense space that ERC should have been able to occupy and that was occupied by someone who had not lifted a finger in four years, who had the space at his disposal and knew how to collect, express, project and personalize in the figure of former mayor Trias, who added a certain demand for historical reparation.
Four years ago he was one step away from being mayor. Six months ago, just shy of being first deputy mayor. It’s hard, isn’t it?
It is an illustration of how our electoral and democratic representation system is magnificent in many ways but also capable of offering perversities. But I don’t want to stop pointing out responsibilities. In both cases (2019 and 2023), the final decision was made by the Comuns, by Colau.
Are you surprised that there is still no clear indication of who Collboni will choose as a government partner?
It is obvious that the PSC has chosen to put the brakes on. It seems that he prefers to buy time, see possibilities, hold on. But perhaps the facts will prove me wrong next week. We have a government of ‘today I look like the Comuns and tomorrow like Junts, the day after I give satisfaction to a union and the next day I take over something more or less valuable from the previous mandate’. It’s the worst thing for the city.
What is better for ERC: entering the government or staying in the opposition?
Who must manage it is Esquerra Republicana: its municipal group, the federation, the national leadership.
It doesn’t seem like you want to get involved either in who should succeed you at the head of the municipal group.
It is part of these decisions that ERC must make.
But as Elisenda Alamany herself implied, there is an automatism, it is planned that the successor will be the next on the list, which is her.
Let ERC say if there is automation. In formal and written terms I think there is no established rule. But I have nothing to say in this, the worst thing I could do is interfere or influence these decisions.
“(About his Elisenda Alamany should succeed him at the head of the ERC group) In formal and written terms I believe that there is no established rule. But I have nothing to say in this, the worst thing I could do is interfere or influence these decisions”
When on November 10 you were about to take a plane to the US and Alamany stated, without setting a date, that you should make way for him as second on the list, did you know that would happen?
No.
It was silent for a few days. Is it in those days that she decided to leave?
The reflection came from before. The rest are anecdotes that give color to the landscape.
Believes that Jaume Collboni Can he be a good mayor of Barcelona, a mayor who leaves a legacy?
Not for the moment. She hasn’t begun to show it. It is one thing to hold office, another is to be the good mayor that the city deserves.
Do you think Ada Colau was a good mayor of Barcelona?
It was born as a legitimate burden of shared hope that had enough elements of reason to try it. Since then it has become clear that good will and ideology are not enough. At the moment of converting all this into a political project, the limitations and contradictions have become evident.
Believes that Xavier Trias Was he a good mayor of Barcelona?
He was one of those mayors who are characterized by not disturbing. For not doing great things so as not to hurt anyone. In that perhaps Collboni is similar to him.
Is it very difficult to be mayor of Barcelona after Pasqual Maragall?
It is always difficult to be mayor of Barcelona. It was for Narcís Serra, then for Pasqual Maragall, then Joan Clos, Jordi Hereu, Trias.
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What will you do starting in January?
Live, read. If possible, write. I think that in this country we talk little. I’ll try to talk.