He definitive triumph of Javier Milei at the polls opens an unprecedented stage for Argentine politics, which is unlike anything we have experienced until now. The eviction of Peronism from the centrality of power and the enthronement of an “outsider” that represents a symbolic universe unknown to the majority, calls thinkers and politicians to reflect. What is the force that will govern Argentina in the next four years? and, more specifically, how it will change everyone’s lives; These are the big questions that plague the majority today.
The volume “It is between us. Where does the extreme right that we did not see coming come from and how far can it go?, which hits bookstores this week, published by the Siglo XXI publishing house, is a good way to begin answering these questions. “This book describes the history of the ideas and social worlds in which the far-right political force that finally shook the electoral landscape and the political agenda of the country took shape and volume,” explain the first lines of the introduction. A group made up of sociologists and political scientists (Sergio Morresi, Ezequiel Saferstein, Melina Vázquez, Martín Vicente and Nicolás Welschinger) coordinated by the anthropologist Pablo Semán, wrote the articles that make up the volume; texts that range, thematically, from the historical and ideological constitution of the new rights to a sociology of its militants.
NEWS spoke about these issues with Pablo Semán, author and researcher, and one of the most interesting voices today in the debate of ideas around politics. Anthropologist and specialist in religiosity and popular culture, he contributes to the analysis of the figure of Milei, new elements with respect to the usual views that try to define him. Here, the essence of the talk.
NEWS: In the book you describe the factors that favor the advent of mileism. Could we summarize them?
Pablo Semán: The circumstances are various and some are very long-term. First, a transformation of the economy that is almost 50 years old – from Rodrigazo onwards – through which we have been accumulating poverty ceilings, which are being pierced all the time. Besides, the “Milei configuration” It is related to the transformation of communication modes. This is the first algorithmic campaign in the history of Argentina. Another factor is the crisis of the relationship between the State and society. Everything moves faster than the State, subjectivities, capital. Fed up with Peronism, is another issue. The anti-caste argument, finally, was placed on Peronism. Therefore, in the dispute raised in terms of continuity or change, people opted for change, because they were more angry about continuity than afraid of change. There is also a sharpening of individualism, in values, in practices, in devices. This is a historical process that has all these dimensions, dimensions that were catalyzed and accelerated by the pandemic. The pandemic amplified the disagreement between the State and society. The State became an agent of harm instead of an agent of care. Thus a vote was generated against the idea of “Present State”.
NEWS: What role does the anti-progressivism and anti-feminism exhibited by those who support La Libertad Avanza play?
Seman: Progressivism caused anti-progressivism. But anti-progressivism is not the main element of this movement. It is not Vox, the Spanish party; It’s not Giorgia Meloni. And not because they are not anti-feminists, but because they did not need that argument much. The millions of men and women who voted for them are worried about their economic situation, after 10 years of stagnation and 12 of inflation. There are two more things I want to add. One is the historical process in which all this is framed. A period of neoliberalism that laid the foundations for what happens today. At the end of 2001 there was already a project to radicalize Sturzenegger’s convertibility that was diluted. Then the failure of convertibility was built. On that basis there was an anti-neoliberalism, which was what stimulated Kirchnerism and, almost at the same time, an “anti-neoliberalism” began to emerge, which claimed a more radical version of the neoliberalism of the Menem era. This more radical version already had to do with international ideologies such as “alternative right” or “Far-right”, which is extreme right. This dispute between the right and anti-neoliberalism became polarized in the context of an increasingly deficient economy, to which the pandemic came to put a stamp. So, there is a 30-year long political process. Civil society is more similar to the right-wing project. It is no coincidence that Peronism loses almost every election in the last 10 years. For all this, and here comes the second question, there is a specificity of the Argentine process. For me, it is intellectual laziness to attribute an exclusively global character to the right. No program of the new right is as radical as Milei’s. Neither Bolsonaro nor Trump. Milei is right when she says “I am the first libertarian president in history.” Furthermore, no far-right project came to power as completely from nowhere as Milei’s.
NEWS: Why didn’t the neoliberal voter prefer Together for Change, when Macri today seems vital to sustain governability?
Seman: A good part of the political process that allows Milei’s arrival has to do with the turn that Macri takes in 2017-2018. The right-wing took place before Milei arrived, although Milei was already present in the media, for young people. Macri adheres to the most radical approaches from that moment on, even beginning to appear closer to Trump than to Obama. His move was not disqualified because he was quite a mileist and he said it throughout 2023. Then, the ideological confluence accelerated and what we see now is the conflict over specific policies and positions.
NEWS: There is something very difficult to understand for those who come from another field of ideas, which are the contradictions of La Libertad Avanza, a crossing that seems impossible between liberalism and conservatism.
Seman: We have to stop thinking in terms of “conservative liberalism”, “nationalist liberalism” or “authoritarian liberalism” with this political force, because this force adopted a methodological, ideological and theoretical approach that is that of Murray Rothbard already a concept they call “fusionism”. It is a methodology that allows us to form a kind of broad right-wing front, where all versions of the right coexist with a supreme interest, which is the fight against socialism. This libertarianism is a vindication of the market and authority, both. Inserted in this historical process, he can without any problem vindicate the dictatorship. Because they also understand that the dictatorship fought communism. And for the same reason they may be opposed to abortion, because feminism seems to them to be an expression of the left and socialism. Which does not mean that there are no voters who are in favor of abortion and that the women who vote for La Libertad Avanzan are sexist.
NEWS: What does democracy mean to them?
Seman: I want to say two things about this. The first is that in the ideological horizon of libertarianism there are authors such as Nick Land, or successors to Milton Friedman or the Cato Institute, which is a center of libertarian ideas, where around 2013 or 2014 an idea appears: freedom is incompatible with democracy. And then there is something else that is more historical, more local. In the electoral campaign, Unión por la Patria proposed that democracy was at stake and raised it in a very abstract way in front of an electorate that saw democracy in concrete terms. And I don’t think it’s an electorate that wants a dictatorship. But those voters did not give in to an abstract representation of democracy as the last excuse of the party of inflation. The other specific issue is that, I believe (and this causes me regret, but I have to say it) that the extent and strength of the democratic consensus are overestimated. First because there is a generational change. Second, because the democratic parties most active in the production of that historical consensus failed and as a consequence, by transitive property, contaminated the democratic consensus and the anti-dictatorship consensus with their own failures.
NEWS: What is the future of Peronism?
Seman: What we are experiencing is the emergence of popular anti-Peronism. I think that is a very strong blow because it implies that the historical social flow of Peronism is structurally damaged. This had been happening for a long time, because Menem makes the reform of the 1994 Constitution, with the ridiculous ballot rule that we have in Argentina (you can win with 40 percent of the votes if you get 11 percent difference) taking into account the decrease in the historical flow of Peronism. That reality that was insinuated at that moment now became much stronger. And it is no coincidence that during the second decade of the 21st century, Peronism lost two of three presidential elections and many parliamentary renewals. The second issue about Peronism is that it is led by a faction that minorizes it.
NEWS: What will be people’s reaction when the adjustment begins? This happened to Macri. Put in reality, no one wants their privileges and advantages to be touched.
Seman: The main problem that it will bring to Argentine society will be a type of adjustment that, to resolve inflation, will bring much more inflation. And I tend to believe that Milei’s bet is “with the popularity that I gained, I will weather the storm and I will arrive with less support than what I have now, but still with a lot of support, at the time of the decline in inflation and there I will recover.” everything I lost and I will even be able to gain the trust of those who distrusted me.” This plan converges with her economic training, on the one hand, and with her reading of the Menemist experience. Menem endured a hyperinflationary episode of his government and yet won the parliamentary renewal of ’91 and ’93, because it represented a catalyst for criticism of the economy of the Alfonsinista government. I believe that the Kirchner government leaves without hyperinflation and without figures of Alfonsín’s political stature. And what one sees is that the leaders of Unión por la Patria, since the election was lost, have not spoken. They took away the word politics from themselves and the only thing a politician has is the word.
NEWS: There is great uncertainty regarding what is coming in the coming years.
Seman: This is just beginning and anything can happen. What I see is a new ruling party, which has to solve very hard and urgent problems, which is divided among the main partners of the electoral alliance and is also led by someone who is not very stable, nor has proof of management and a team that does not accompany him. And, on the other hand, I see an opposition that, as an official party, was delegitimized as a political force. What’s more, I believe that the erosion of the Peronist world is going to be greater in the coming months and where, apart from that, not only is there no visible perspective of relegitimization, but there is not a single Peronist since the election who has spoken towards the future.
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