Thinking in terms of payback time is outdated, the energy advisers suggest. Willy Heijnen (of Bouwkundig Ontwerp- en Adviesbureau Heijnen and member of the Sustainable Decrease working group),gaatze Postma from Hier en Daar Advies from Mûnein and Rob Goes van Ekwadraat from Leeuwarden, all agree that sustainability mainly changes the way of thinking of individuals, companies and governments require.