Her Center for Civil Liberties won the Nobel Peace Prize last year. Now, a year after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Oleksandra Matevichyuk testified against President Putin. A try-out is being held for a forthcoming tribunal in The Hague in front of a special ‘court’. “With criminals, there should be no return to business as usual.”
H How did the symbolic testimony go?
Three prosecutors questioned me about myself, my personal motivation and my human rights organization that documents war crimes. Furthermore, it was about the United Nations General Assembly on Ukraine. Russia did not comply with certain UN requests. It also dealt with questions from the International Criminal Court, which Russia also does not cooperate with.
You got emotional.
I cried, unfortunately. There is so unimaginable suffering in this war.
What other witnesses were there?
There were journalists who were in the cell and testified that people died there. There was a woman whose husband was shot dead by Russian soldiers in Bocha near Kiev when she sought medical attention. The audience was impressed.
What does your organization stand for?
We fight for justice. Such a court against Russian aggression is needed. There are so many casualties. People killed, imprisoned or tortured. Some of the victims even came to The Hague to force leaders from different countries in the world to form a tribunal.
How are your family and friends?
When I am abroad here, I am more concerned about the news. Because you never know if your house is still standing or has been destroyed by Russian missiles. You worry about whether your family and friends are still alive. If your own city is not hit, another city may be hit. That’s an irrational feeling.
How did it affect your family?
My cats and husband are in Ukraine. But my mother has fled to Germany. And she’s not happy, lost her job as a teacher. She felt unwelcome, had little assistance. She keeps crying because she wants to go home.
This court is an initiative of Cinema for Peace and Ben Ferencz, the 102-year-old Nazi prosecutor at the Nuremberg Tribunal. Does he inspire?
We need positive examples. From courageous lawyers from other countries who fight for justice in past wars and conflicts.
Do you see a chance that Putin will ever stand in front of the fence in The Hague?
This was not an art performance. I have no doubt that – if Putin lives – he will face trial. Because the history of mankind convincingly shows that authoritarian regimes fall, and that their leaders, who consider themselves untouchable, will one day appear in court.
Is Putin personally responsible for this war and the crime of aggression?
We must immediately form a special tribunal for the crime of aggression. We don’t have to wait for the end of the war. Now we don’t know how to arrest Putin and bring him to The Hague. But you can also judge in his absence. That will have a lot of influence, not only in the future, but also now.
Why?
When I interviewed survivors and ex-convicts, they said their tormentors believed they would go unpunished. Only the start of a special court can send a signal to these people. May they be tried one day. That can save lives and reduce brutal human rights violations.
Are there other consequences?
There are politicians in other countries who aim to normalize relations with Putin. They want to get rid of economic sanctions. This new procedure ensures that criminals do not go back to the criminals business as usual will be.
You already met Joe Biden in Kiev in 2014, when the war actually started. Did he promise military support and weapons?
He was then Vice President of the United States. He asked me what America could do. We wanted defense help, his answer was vague. I’m a lawyer and the Russians killed unarmed civilians. I have no means other than my profession to stop these horrors. I believe the violence is temporary, but new war crimes must be prevented. We should not just investigate and condemn what happened.
Do you see similarities between the Euro-Maidan uprising and the Crimean occupation in 2014, with the current situation?
Impunity leads to more crimes. There will be no stable peace without justice.
How proud are you of the Nobel Peace Prize?
We didn’t expect that. It’s a big responsibility. It gave us an opportunity for our voice to be heard. The killing on the battlefield, in the occupied territories of Crimea and Donbas, must stop.
In Germany, some compare Putin to Hitler, and the situation in Russia to fascism.
All authoritarian leaders think alike. If they feel weakness, they attack. They see dialogue as a sign of weakness, unfortunately. They want to dictate their rules to the world. Believe that internationally recognized borders may change. Putin will only stop if he is stopped. That is the main parallel between Putin and Hitler.
The EU had a resolution to set up a tribunal together with the UN. What is the chance of that?
We need to sort that out as soon as possible. To do that at the UN, we need a majority in the General Assembly. That is difficult, but possible. Another court may arise at the EU or the Council of Europe.
How happy are you with the symbolic testimony in the Netherlands?
This is very essential. I am happy to be part of this. Because justice is a universal value.