National coach Andries Jonker: ‘Football is not able to solve all problems’

Last week Andries Jonker, national coach of the Dutch football players, met his predecessor Mark Parsons at a meeting of the European Football Association in London. While he was walking down a hotel corridor, a door flew open and someone shouted: “good morning, Andries! “We exchanged some formalities,” he says. “Our conversation lasted a minute and a half.”

If there had been more time, Parsons and Jonker would have had a lot to talk about about the failed adventure of the Briton, who had been employed by the KNVB for less than a year. But their short-lived contact is somehow exemplary for the 60-year-old Jonker, who is more into looking ahead than looking back. Not that he never looks back – he offered his players to analyze the Parsons period when he took office – but he is above all a man who rolls up his sleeves. An approach with which he guided the team to the 2023 World Cup in Australia and New Zealand.

That work ethic is part of the environment in which he grew up. His uncles were carpenters, gardeners and road workers, he says. His father administrative assistant. He lived in a small 1930s house in Amsterdam-Noord, in a neighborhood – Blauwe Zand – where the red flags with hammer and sickle determined the street scene during election time. “On birthdays, people talked about ‘we workers’. No one was ashamed of that.”

Your childhood left you with a strong sense of justice. A childhood friend said you once chased him in anger for laughing at someone in a wheelchair.

“That’s how I am. It’s been fashionable for a while to do this [hij trekt een scheve mond en brabbelt iets overstaanbaars] to do. That’s not something to mock, health. You can be very happy if you are healthy.”

You yourself have worked with disabled children for a while.

“I had completed the academy for physical education (ALO), had completed my military service and could immediately start working as a stand-in for the municipality of Amsterdam. I worked in special education for five years. With children who were socially handicapped because their parents had been murdered before their eyes. Or children with a physical disability. Or both. That shapes you, that touches you.”

Did you take your work home with you or were you able to separate it well?

“You have to make a choice: do I take those children home to take care of them, or do you try to help them in a school setting?”

Have you considered that first?

“My wife and I together. In the end we decided not to take the children in because we wanted to have children ourselves. Once they were there, of course, we couldn’t send the school children away. But they were really children in distressing situations, without a home, without parents. Eight-year-olds who walked into a supermarket, stuffed food in their pockets and walked away without paying.”

People call you socially engaged. Do you see it that way?

“I am not very socially involved, but I am very involved with people. Initially mainly with children, later in my career also with adults.”

Joris Postema, who made a documentary about the time you coached Telstar, said: occasionally Jonker’s social involvement clashes with his ambition.

Silence. “At Telstar I had a long-term plan. I wanted it to be a club where clubs and brokers housed players who wanted to make strides. Telstar could then move up structurally from there. In three years’ time, seventeen players moved up the ranks, but in the third and final year we ended up in 19th place. Partly because of corona, my plan did not succeed.”

Did you put the well-being of the players above the results?

“Yes. In my opinion the only way to get higher with a club without money. I could also have put the result first, but the situation at Telstar was not suitable for that.”

You were head of youth academy at Arsenal for a few years. There you had to deal with difficult guys like Joe Willock, who now plays at Newcastle United. Was your experience as a teacher helpful?

“Haha, Joe Willock, that’s a name! We had our hands full with him. I first transferred Joe from the under-16 to the under-18, with a different trainer. When his behavior did not change, I started working with him myself. Early Sunday mornings or on weekday evenings – separate from the other players. Interspersed with training sessions with the fitness trainer. I didn’t spare him, did things that challenged him. He loved it because he got all the attention.”

You like to let people come into their own.

„Yes, getting talented players on track with whom ‘something’ is going on. I find that a challenge. I still do it with other players from my time at Arsenal like Reiss Nelson [Arsenal-aanvaller] and Dan Crowley [middenvelder Willem II]. Without financial compensation, just because I like it. It also makes for nice contacts. I was at Crowley’s wedding last summer.”

The women you work with now mention you especially clearly. You make no bones about it. Doesn’t shy away from confrontations.

He smiles. “Amsterdam-Noord, Blauwe Zand, don’t let the cheese eat your bread. That’s in me. I’m tough and direct at times – people sometimes think, Phew, but my intentions are positive. My experience is that you make the most progress with clear feedback. But I try to create a good atmosphere in all my directness. It must not kill.”

The players also say: that directness came at the right time.

“I don’t want to say too much about my predecessor, after all I was not there, but of course I also heard the critical voices through the media. Mark was criticized for not being clear. Then when someone comes who is, from his nature, that is welcomed. My offer to the players to look back on the period with Parsons was declined. Nobody needed it. Looking back takes energy. Iceland had to win to force qualification for the World Cup.”

That barely worked, with a goal in stoppage time. Do you see many bumps on the road to the World Cup?

“You always want a team to play better, players to play better. Why is only one of the 29 goals against Iceland cashed in? Why not five? In terms of football, there are still things to be desired. But I also realize that a number of girls still have to develop. Others need to calm down, come into balance. Still others have to find their place in the team, play their idol out. I don’t see any real bumps, but we’re far from done.”

You have been an assistant or interim more often than head coach over the past quarter century. How did that happen?

“I adapt easily to circumstances. Some people are good at one thing – they coach women or youth players, for example. I feel at home in all kinds of settings and functions: head coach, assistant, head of youth academy, technical director, big clubs, small clubs, men, women, on the margins of professional football or the international top.”

You once said that you only want to work in Western Europe because of private circumstances. What did you mean?

“I have enjoyed working abroad for fourteen years – Belgium, Germany, Spain, England – and my family has always accompanied me. Abroad still attracts me. USA, South America, Middle East, Australia. I could have started working in China with my resume. But my family thought it was enough.”

Do you have children?

“Yes.” He holds up three fingers.

Little is known about your private life.

“I’d like to keep it that way. And my wife too. That has to do with security and privacy.”

You don’t want to dwell on it?

“No.”

Speaking of safety: Dusan Tadic was met at his house by robbers and Eran Zahavi was also the target of criminals during his PSV time. Does that worry you?

“I’m not well known to worry right away, but that doesn’t mean I’m careful with statements about my private life. You should know that I have three children, but that’s what I’ll stick to.”

People who wouldn’t get opportunities in any other area in life sometimes get them in football. Nice is not it?

Football has become tougher and more commercial in recent years. You are of equality and justice. Does that still go well together?

“The football world is not by definition fair. Big money rules and you can question that. But deep down, the essence is unchanged. People who wouldn’t get opportunities in any other area in life sometimes get them in football. That’s nice, isn’t it?”

Footballers are increasingly expected to identify with social issues. In your early years, a captaincy was not worn to promote inclusion.

He sighs. “Football is popular and attracts a lot of attention. It is a great tool for promoting social change. Such a captain’s armband would have had less effect at the bowling association. But is it realistic to link all social issues to sport? I don’t know. Look, I’m also against the extermination of chimpanzees and for women’s rights. But I don’t go to Dam Square every day with a banner. I try to treat others with respect.”

Actually you say: it could be an ounce less.

“If the public is chanting racist things during a match, I understand that you act against it. That affects the sport directly. But that is by no means the case for all social problems. Football is not capable of solving all those problems, we should focus on football itself.”

What about the World Cup in Qatar? Do human rights also directly affect football there?

“It is good that the KNVB has listened to Amnesty. And if Amnesty says that the attention for the World Cup in Qatar can be used to stimulate social change, I believe it. It is now too late to protest. That should have happened when the choice fell on Qatar. But realize: if we don’t go to Qatar, can we play in all kinds of other Asian, African and South American countries? And if you continue that line, aren’t we putting a bomb under the global sports experience?”

Back to the women for a moment. The Netherlands was a finalist at the previous World Cup and is currently eighth in the world ranking. What are you hoping for in New Zealand and Australia?

“I have agreed a clear objective with Jan Dirk van der Zee, KNVB director of amateur and women’s football. We belong to the top ten countries in the world, want to be recognized as such and participate in all major tournaments. Although we have drawn extremely unlucky for the World Cup [Nederland treft onder meer wereldkampioen Verenigde Staten] we owe it to our stand to survive the group stage. Let’s start with that and then we’ll see.”