There will be a corona infection wave after the summer. Minister Ernst Kuipers (Public Health) has no doubts about this. In a conversation with NU.nl, the minister looks ahead and thinks very carefully about scrapping the isolation measure. “Suppose that different variants do not cause more than a nose cold in the future, then you should also treat the virus in the same way.”
You’ve been in politics for half a year almost to the day. How do you like that?
“Good.”
What is the biggest difference with your previous job as boss of Erasmus?
“The advantage is that I am in a place that I already know very well because of my background. In different roles I have spent 38 years in different hospitals. Is he that old already? Yes, he is that old.”
“New for me is the dynamics in the cabinet and in the House.”
In addition to the pure content, you also have something like the political reality. How do you like that?
“That’s good too. A lot of talking, poldering, doing politics. Also outside the House. The healthcare field is large and has an incredible number of parties.”
Are you a patient man?
Laughing: “I can be very patient.”
“I don’t like bullshit. You have to be able to handle that a bit in politics, of course.”
When not?
“I recognize that some processes take a lot of time. A colleague of yours recently wrote that I don’t like bullshit. Well, that’s right. I don’t like bullshit. You have to be able to handle that in politics, of course. But that doesn’t mean I like it the most.”
The fight against corona seems more like a scheduling problem in this tight labor market. Is the focus of the approach at Public Health still in the right place, or should it actually go to Social Affairs?
“That is interesting. Thank you for this question. I received a lot of criticism because I would throw problems over the fence and not take responsibility. Corona will not go away. The current contamination peaks are at times extremely high and many people fall out. “
“In the years 2020 and 2021 we have had an estimated 4.7 million infections. In the first three months of this year there were already 6 million. Wow! have 10 million infections in April.”
“That means a lot of staff loss. The Dutch Railways, Schiphol, education and of course healthcare will all feel that.”
Will there come a time when we still go to work with a positive test?
“That depends on the situation. Suppose that different variants cause no more than a nose cold in the future, then you should also treat the virus in the same way.”
“We can handle it smartly. You keep your distance, sneeze into your elbow and don’t shake someone’s hand.”
Does that also work in a busy train?
“That is possible. But we are not there yet. Also look at this week’s discussion about vulnerable people. They are very hesitant to encounter infected people.”
That group of vulnerable remains, and so does the virus. Do you think there will come a time when you will go out with the virus?
“To be clear: that moment has not yet come and I am not considering introducing it tomorrow.”
“People in fragile health are susceptible to a virus infection. You cannot remove that vulnerability.”
But you do say: in the long run it could be.
“You could imagine that.”
“But again, and sorry for all the disclaimers, I’m really not considering it yet. For now, testing for complaints and in isolation for a positive test is the most important mechanism we have to contain infections.”
Even if we don’t get very ill and ten million people will soon be infected?
“It could eventually be that this becomes a respiratory and cold virus, just like all those other viruses. Then you deal with it that way.”
“Then I come back to that group of vulnerable people, because I want to emphasize that I have empathy for that. At the same time, it makes sense to realize that corona is one of the infections in a multitude of viruses that are around us every day. .”
“People in vulnerable health are susceptible to a virus infection. You cannot remove that vulnerability. You cannot get infections to zero with measures such as mouth caps and keeping your distance.”
Talk about measures. You asked sectors to come up with their own plans in case measures are needed again. These will soon be leading when RIVM issues advice. But vRepresentatives in those sectors do not know when, for example, you have to wear a mouth cap on the train or in the cafe. Who determines that?
“RIVM monitors and evaluates weekly. Are we in an alarm phase? Do we have to vaccinate? The GGDs are ready to set up everything again if necessary.”
“If the RIVM warns, the OMT and MIT will be asked for advice and the sector plans will be used as a basis.”
Then you get a lot of different advice. I don’t think that’s easy to communicate.
“It is tailor-made advice for every sector. In the past we said: all contact professions will close. You don’t want that.”
“In recent years, the sectors have often shouted: give us room to maneuver now, because we know best what we can do in our setting.”
“Delayed care leads to a lower quality of life for many people.”
Your predecessor said there’s something decadent about refusing a vaccine. How are you in that?
“Whether or not to vaccinate is a personal choice, but a choice with consequences. Also for others.”
“A vaccine protects you against serious illness. As a result, the chance that you need help in the hospital and that you crowd out someone else and make you wait smaller. Delayed care leads to a lower quality of life for many people.”
Would you like to depoliticise that discussion?
“I try that too. Mandatory vaccination goes a long way. I am convinced that if you give a good explanation, you can also persuade people.”
“I recently had a conversation with someone who did not want to be vaccinated for religious reasons, because you influence the course of the disease.”
“But if you don’t take a vaccine to influence the course of the disease, you also have to take that into account if you do receive an IV in the hospital, receive medication and a tube is placed in your throat if you can no longer breathe yourself. All that. things influence the course of the illness. I don’t understand that split. I don’t think that’s rational.”
Faith and reason do not necessarily go well together.
“Right. But that’s what I call it. In this case, that person started to think about it again.”
You converted him?
Laughing: “Those are your words.”