The conversation with 67-year-olds was about the existential themes of life: punk and death.
Until the implosion of the Sex Pistols, John Lydon, under his nom de guerre “Johnny Rotten”, was the central figure of early British punk for a brief, chaotic period. As head of the post-punk band Public Image Ltd, he then repeatedly trod unfamiliar musical paths. Forty years after the release of PIL’s biggest hit, This Is Not A Love Song, a new album, END OF WORLD, will be released this summer.
It doesn’t matter whether he is a young bourgeoisie or an old white man: John Lydon always oscillates between provocation and thoughtfulness, between sharp irony and wild polemics. The conversation with 67-year-olds was about the existential themes of life: punk and death.
Hello John, how are you today?
Thank you I’m alive
They have been making music for almost 50 years. What still drives you after all these years?
Love. i love what i do I always wanted to write songs and make music. It’s the only thing I’m really good at. It’s my fulfillment.
You are considered one of the fathers of punk. It’s the year 2023. 1976 is half an eternity ago. What does the term punk still mean to you today?
DIY! Try to think for yourself. Don’t be part of a large group or mass movement. The press quickly declared punk to be a movement. That was destructive. I’ve never seen myself as part of a movement.
One of punk’s historical merits was that it infected pop with irony. Today, irony has long been mainstream. Is the irony over?
No, because what is shown in the mainstream is not irony, but stupidity. The mainstream has never understood irony, sarcasm and humor. Mainstream culture is parodying itself, which is ironic. I come from the working class. We had little, but what we had was irony. Why are they rich and we poor? It wasn’t about envy for us, it was about tearing down walls. The pursuit of wealth is a mistake. It leads to solitude. I know very few rich people who are really happy.
They lost their wife, to whom they had been married for more than forty years, after a long illness. If you follow her career, terrible personal losses have always been a part of her life. From John “Sid Vicious” Ritchie, to her stepdaughter Ari Up, the singer of the punk band The Slits, to her longtime musical partner Keith Levene. How much have they shaped losses?
I also lost my parents. For me personally it is very hard when someone suddenly disappears and never comes back. I understand that some people become religious because of this. But organized, man-made religions will never be the answer for me.
You tried to represent Ireland in the song contest…
Wait, I didn’t try, I was invited. And it was a wonderful opportunity for me to perform my song “Hawaii”. My wife Nora was still alive at the time. And in that song I foretold her death. It was extremely difficult for me emotionally.
The song “Hawaii” is a contemplative song about love, loss, memory and death. From my point of view, however, completely unsuitable for winning the song contest …
Who cares about winning!
That would have been my question. Didn’t you want to win?
I could play the song and later show it to Nora. That’s what it was about. I could see how happy she was. Nora even picked the pink suit I wore to the Irish Prelims. When she saw that, she cried out: Oh, Johnny! But there were actually people who believed that I wanted to win. These people don’t understand what it means when two people who love each other very much face death.
The current album of their band Public Image Ltd is entitled END OF WORLD. Doesn’t sound particularly optimistic.
I’m very optimistic. The fact that I won’t kill myself proves it. Life is the most important thing. Although I have to live with the terrible loss of my wife Nora, my love for her will live on in me. She would have wanted that too.
And all of this is reflected in your new album?
Exactly. At the center of all my work is always hope. I am not a black painter. The end of the world is more for fashionable goth types.
1976 was the so-called Year Zero. The Zero Hour. But that’s nonsense too. Even early punk bands were influenced by bands that came before them. The Ramones, for example, were influenced by Phil Spector bands like the Ronettes. Who influenced John Lydon?
A lot of nonsense has been written about punk in recent years. The biggest nonsense is that punk originally came from New York. I was influenced by David Bowie, Marc Bolan, Roxy Music, The Sweet, Slade and Jimmy Hendrix. They weren’t Americans. We didn’t have any access to the New York scene. The lyrics of the Sex Pistols have totally focused on British culture. Yes, the Ramones were okay, but musically I prefer Status Quo. And yes, I understand the Phil-Spector connection. But the sound of him was always terrible. That hurt my ears.
Do you listen to music by current artists?
Yes, I love the sound her brushes make on the canvas. [lacht] I’ve never liked the word “artist” because it opens the floodgates to all things pompous. When I started the Sex Pistols there were bands like Emerson, Lake and Palmer or Yes. Absurd, egomaniacal groups trying to pose as classical musicians. It was all foreign to me. And the lyrics? Completely meaningless.
OK, I’ll rephrase it. What current acts are you listening to?
Ah, many! My roots are in pop. The poppier, the better! Pop bands have the ability to say a lot with a few words. This is genius. But there are also many cast acts today that seem very artificial. In principle, they embody what was once accused of the Sex Pistols.
I would even say the Sex Pistols were an archetypal pop band. Would you disagree?
I wrote at least a few songs that had some cultural impact.
And that’s the essence of pop, isn’t it?
Yes.
Speaking of sex pistols. All four founding members are still alive. What are the chances of a maybe last reunion?
Are you sure the other three are physically alive? No, unlike me, her place in history is marked by an enormous amount of fakery.
Last question: Who is actually your favorite German punk band?
The dead trousers. When I last met them they gave me a case of brandy for some reason. The stuff was awful!