By Michael Zollner
Joe Chialo has caused confusion in culture with his proclamation that nothing stays the same. With the BZ he spoke about the tense budget situation.
Nothing stays the same, said Joe Chialo (53) at the beginning of his term.
You can already see that in the office of the new Senator for Culture. New art on the walls, new furniture – he bought it all privately, assures Joe Chialo. The man pays attention to the costs. BZ spoke to the new culture senator about the difficult budgetary situation and the future of Berlin culture.
BZ: At the beginning of your term of office you said that everything will change. Do you regret falling into the house with the door?
Joe Chialo: I didn’t want to achieve a cheap effect, but communicate honestly and set expectations accordingly. That must have annoyed some people. But it turns out I wasn’t a lone voice in the desert. It has meanwhile arrived that the budgetary situation is clearly strained from the federal government through the states to the districts. And we have to deal with that. I will fight for the means, also to meet the expectations of the artists who need support.
Nevertheless, some understood this as an announcement of cuts.
I have made it clear that we are facing hard times. Nothing will stay the way it is. The word saving never came up. The sentence has caused confusion because no one has said it so clearly before.
Berlin’s new culture senator Joe Chialo (CDU) Photo: Ralf Gunther
Does Berlin culture have to adapt to a shrinking budget?
Berlin culture can look forward to the culture senator fighting to bring home a stable household in a tense situation. This is my imperative.
“The culture is still suffering from the consequences of the pandemic“
The culture is still suffering from the effects of the pandemic, inflation and high energy costs. In order to maintain the level, the budget would have to increase.
It really is. Due to increases in energy costs, minimum wages and tariff increases, we are in a situation where, even if the budget increases, it will not be easy for many cultural workers because too much will melt away. And I communicate that to the Finance Senator as well as to the Governing Mayor.
During the election campaign, Kai Wegner said he wanted to strengthen culture. How is that supposed to work without more money?
It is important to fight for funds. But it’s also about changing the structures, the structures of the houses we finance and those of the independent scene. As I just said: We are facing hard times. And that requires an evaluation of the situation and personal action.
What do you mean by that?
Everyone has to question their structures. Be it the independent scene, be it the houses and theaters we support. That’s nothing out of the ordinary. That’s what people do all over Germany. Why should it be any different in the cultural and creative scene? For me, this is completely normal behavior.
Culture Senator Joe Chialo (CDU) in the BZ interview with Michael Zöllner Photo: Ralf Gunther
The coalition agreement states that you want to improve social standards in all areas of cultural work. How does that work in the independent scene, for example, where a lot is based on self-exploitation if not on money?
These are commonplaces. There are also excellent projects in the independent scene. We also have artists there who are world-class.
But it is a point in the coalition agreement.
That is the claim that every coalition has. Of course we have to build in security systems for the artists and the ecosystem. But that doesn’t mean that I can support every project in the independent scene. Everyone is obliged to ask themselves what is possible and feasible with the resources that are available. That applies to the bus driver, and it also applies to those involved in culture in the independent scene. But we shouldn’t always push this correlation between money and art forward. Otherwise art would only work in countries where there is a lot of money. Art can be very poignant and great even with little means.
You come from the music industry. How do you find the world of politics?
Great. But it was a cold shower. Many processes in politics are different than I knew them before. The environment is all the more important. At first I thought the administration was an agency with people who came in early and went home at three and had a certain lack of passion because they secured their existence. But I found exactly the opposite here. The employees love culture and are passionate about it. It gives me a feeling of support, which I really appreciate.
The work processes are certainly different.
I knew from the start that I was entering a different world. Of course there are processes in administration that are rather foreign to me. Digitization is also not as advanced here as it is in the world I come from. And Parliament and the Culture Committee have their very own dynamic. Sometimes I find the tone in parliament rather difficult because I sometimes experience a kind of ritualized animosity between some party colors. I would like a more pragmatic tone to solve the problems for the people in a way that is needed. But that’s just my impression now.