Vincentive: “I think it was around the start of the corona period that I realized: I want to do things differently. I wanted to give Sarita space with her business and be there more for the family. Children grow up quickly; if you work full time, you miss a lot. You’re at work, you come home, you’re tired. Then you would rather hang out on the couch than spend time with the kids. I didn’t want that anymore.”
Sarita: “We made a conscious choice to organize it differently. This had some financial consequences, but we are not big into luxury. We don’t have to go far on holiday and I don’t have to buy designer clothes for the children.”
Vincent: “It took a while to find a suitable part-time job, but I eventually found a position as IT coordinator at the UMC Utrecht. That’s for three days a week. When and how I work on those days, at the office or at home, is up to me. That suits me very well. And experiencing family life in this way is truly a new experience. All those behavioral phases a child goes through! Due to the age difference, we now have one in toddler puberty and the other in teenage puberty. One minute they get along well and the next they have a terrible fight.”
Sarita: “Inclusivity and safety are very important in my work. We also live these values at home. I think it is important that one parent is always at home for the children, as a safe base. They are never home alone. Yes, once for half an hour, then there was no other option. But in principle we involve them in everything.”
Vincent: “For example, when Sarita gives a presentation in Arnhem, we all go along. Then I go to a playground with the boys during the presentation and we drive back together. Sometimes we stay in a hotel, then it really is a getaway.”
Sarita: “My job is not what you do between nine and five, it is one way of life. It’s who you hang out with, how you raise your kids, everything. So if there’s an all-male panel on TV, I say, gee, why wouldn’t there be a woman on it? Or I point out the ribbed line on the sidewalk for blind people. It is also in activities we do as a family. For example, if there is a refugee family in need, we all collect clothing or food in the area.”
Vincent: “In my previous family situation, with two children who are now well into their twenties, there was no room to do these kinds of activities besides work. I really like the fact that we can now tackle things much more together.”
Too soft or too hard
Sarita: “My work focuses on privilege and inclusion. I provide training and am also often a mediator or moderator, for example at the municipality of Amsterdam. I also do a lot in the world of children’s books: I am a jury member at the Gouden Griffels and had my own book talk show on AT5 for a long time.”
Vincent: “You also do coaching.”
Sarita: “Yes, sorry, it’s a lot. I originally studied medicine. But during my studies I came into contact with providing training, also in the field of inclusion. In my opinion, that subject was often tackled either too softly or too hard. Then it was either a nice meal of kale stew and nasi goreng together, or a very serious and serious discussion of racism, without any perspective for action. While I think that is the most important thing. Many people do not want to discriminate, but are not aware of it or do not know what to do. I specialized in that and it actually went very well from the start.”
Vincent: “You can say that Sarita was at the basis of inclusion and diversity thinking in the Netherlands.”
Sarita: “Well, that’s a bit too much honor. I stand on the shoulders of giants.”
Vincent: “Yes, of course people were already working on it before, but you have been important in the fact that the diversity movement has gained such momentum in recent years.”
Sarita: “Well, okay… I have been working on the subject for a long time, yes.”
On a date during the day
Vincent: “On a non-working day I get up around seven o’clock and wake the children. The eldest is now starting to become a teenager. You can’t get him out of bed in the morning! In the meantime, I make the sandwiches downstairs, prepare the lunch boxes and take them to school. Then I do what is necessary in the house: cleaning, shopping or administration. If I have a working day and have to go to Utrecht, Sarita takes over.”
Sarita: “We sometimes go on dates during the day, when we both have a free morning. Then we go for a walk and drink coffee in the neighborhood, or relax on the couch and watch a movie or series with snacks. Very cosy.”
Vincent: “We have little family nearby and our regular babysitter is on maternity leave, so going on a date in the evening becomes difficult. We mainly have to rely on ourselves.”
Sarita: “With a young family you quickly find yourself in control mode. But I think it’s important to take the time for each other. To really see and acknowledge each other consciously. That is why the rule in our home is that children are not allowed to sit behind a screen immediately after school. I think they should first land quietly. Just sit on the couch and see where you are, greet your hamster, think about whether you still have homework to do. Then you can play Nintendo.”
Vincent: “As with all children, this is not received with great enthusiasm.”
Sarita: “But your eldest son, who also lived here for a while, recently said that he always thought we were ‘strict but fair’. If we were strict, it would be correct.”
Vincent: “Then I think you have done quite well as parents.”