A ROLLING STONE interview from the archive, March 2021:
The two have known each other forever: Campino, singer of Toten Hosen for 40 years, and Kiki Ressler, head of KKT (Kikis Kleiner Tourneservice) in Berlin and since 1984 on every tour of the Düsseldorf band. “One of the really great strokes of luck for us” is what Campino calls him. How are you experiencing the Corona period, what hopes and fears do you have? Of course, these two don’t have a crystal ball either and don’t know what’s going to happen next. To be on the safe side, Kiki calls his answers “assessments without certainty”. Both make it clear in advance that they are very aware that they have comparatively small worries.
How are you doing at the moment, what did you have to deal with in 2020, and how does your everyday life look like now?
CAMPINO: The cancellation of our orchestra tour hurt a lot because it was a special project. But looking back, I have to say it was the right decision. We got together in April or May 2020 and went through all the options. Of course we didn’t know how things would develop either, but we suspected that it would be difficult. Hence the decision not to postpone the tour to 2021. Now we wait like everyone else. We have agreed to meet up again and again this year for intensive sessions – that is, weekly, in the studio or rehearsal room – and simply put music together. Using the time as best as possible. So we are not dependent on the whims of politics or any numbers, because as a group we are small enough and can be tested beforehand, like a sports team in our own bubble.
Kiki, the cultural lockdown must have hit you harder.
KIKI: We’ve already shut down. We applied for short-time work in May, and I’m very grateful for the offer, because it also helps ensure that we don’t have to lay off any of our employees this year either. Even if it doesn’t start again until 2022. With the state support in Germany, we are in a much better position than in many other countries. Despite the lack of concerts, there is a lot to do for everyone because tours have to be postponed or canceled again and again, that has to be communicated, you have to talk to the bands and draw up some kind of financing plan so that they can somehow survive. Of course there are state subsidies, for example through the “Neustart Musik” – and that’s an insane accounting effort. And we are already preparing a lot for 2022.
Campino, did you also have to make cuts at your record company JKP, short-time work or something similar?
CAMPINO: Luckily we were able to prevent that. The record company is working through the night, but of course we’ve also switched to home office – anyone who wants to stay at home can do that. But everyone is normally busy, and that’s a good thing. As far as we can, we also support others with financial difficulties until the time is over. All I can say is that anyone who has the opportunity to defer money or otherwise temporarily keep people in the industry afloat should do so. When everything returns to normal, we will be thankful for the people we have held.
It’s going to take a really long time for the more uncontrollable standing events and packed little clubs. With luck at the end of 2021 – if the vaccinations work as well as we all hope
When do you think that will be?
CAMPINO: As one of Europe’s most important festivals, Glastonbury is already a signpost – their cancellation for this year is a serious sign that there won’t be much going on this summer. There will certainly be a gradual opening, for example first football stadiums, where standing room is blocked and, for example, only every third seat is allowed, then theaters and cinemas and seated events in closed rooms. I’m afraid it will take a really long time for the more uncontrollable standing events and the packed little clubs. With luck at the end of 2021 – if the vaccinations work as well as we all hope.
How do you imagine the post-corona period?
CAMPINO: It is not yet possible for anyone to estimate how high the total damage will be. Thank God many fans are sticking by their bands, but even if everything happens as usual in 2022: After these two difficult years, who would have the money to go to every event? The walkers will probably not come at first, but rather the hard supporters. But when Feine Sahne, Broilers and Die Toten Hosen play in a month, who will fall through the grate? And how is that supposed to work logistically? Many of the technicians and other highly qualified people go with the doctors, for example, then maybe with the Beatsteaks and then with the Toten Hosen. They can’t split into quarters if everyone is on the move at the same time.
KIKI: I have the impression that most of the big organizers will make it through, even if they have to use up all of their reserves and take out loans. I’m more worried about small clubs that fail due to the official requirements for funding, and about the many freelancers, the so-called solo self-employed, who make up the majority of a tour crew. It’s still very sticky there. The local security, all the stage hands – they have to look for other jobs now. We will miss them substantially in 2022.
What has to happen from the state side, what annoys you about the current politics?
KIKI: It hits all the solo self-employed the hardest. Years ago, the Ich-AG was propagated in this way, and now the people are left without sufficient help to secure their livelihood. That’s where I see the greatest need for action. That’s why an organization like Red Alert is extremely important to put pressure on politicians.
Why did it take so long to organize something like Red Alert? Was everyone in shock?
CAMPINO: The music business is not a homogeneous field, as some might imagine. In addition to the artists, there are also craftsmen, bus drivers, catering staff and many more – these are all very different interest groups, also with different charisma. When the big acts get involved in the debate, they are quickly accused of egoism, along the lines of: “You’ve got it anyway, what are you playing on?” So bands like Die Ärzte or we have to be careful that it’s clear that we are don’t work for our interests, but for others – all the service providers, small companies and self-employed people who work for us and the entire cultural scene.
KIKI: Our industry has always been a non-subsidy area. I don’t want to oppose the subsidized culture at all, I’m happy about the theater landscape in Germany. But people there are just used to pointing up their fingers and saying what is needed. They also know the ways, the structures and the lobbying work, we don’t. Our industry only slowly discovered lobbying during the crisis.
What are your plans now?
CAMPINO: We don’t have any concrete plans. Of course, like any other band, we’d love to play live, but we’re sticking to the point that we don’t want to make any compromises when it comes to our performances – I can’t imagine Die Toten Hosen at a picnic concert. For me alone, more readings would be okay, that’s something else. But our concerts live from encounters, from shared experiences, from singing along and moving. We’ll have to wait longer then.
When it came to vaccinations, the EU could have made a name for itself and proved that it had greater power as a community – unfortunately this opportunity was wasted
KIKI: We still have a lot planned for 2021, and I still hope that we can continue with reasonably normal concerts again from late autumn, with quick test scenarios and the like. Of course, all this shakes with the vaccination situation. In December, the whole industry breathed a sigh of relief at the news, but now it has sunk back into a moderate depression.
CAMPINO: With vaccinations, the EU could have distinguished itself and proved that it has greater power as a community – unfortunately this opportunity was wasted.
So you’re not planning new tours until 2022?
KIKI: At the moment yes. In recent years things have developed in such a way that you have to start planning earlier and earlier anyway. 2022 is going to be quite a touring carnage, that’s for sure. All the postponed concerts from 2020 and 2021, plus all the acts who had planned their tour for the year anyway… In the absence of free dates for 2022 in the venues, we are already planning for 2023.
I’m also starting to get annoyed by the people who are always happy about nice insights from that time – you can really get them in other ways!
Is there anything positive that you take away from the Corona period?
KIKI: Wash your hands and wear a mask! The first was always a good idea.
CAMPINO: Basically, I always try to accept things as they are if I can’t change them. Confronted with the Corona situation, I could either complain all the time or make the best of it. Rediscovering cycling, walking, playing chess, tidying up. Nobody needed this virus! I have nothing to thank the pandemic for. I’m also starting to get annoyed by the people who are always happy about nice insights from that time – you can really get them in other ways!