State Secretary Hans Vijlbrief (Mining) presented Tuesday afternoon in Garmerwolde his plans to redeem the debt of honor for Groningen and North Drenthe. “If I don’t get this done properly, I don’t dare come here anymore.”
State Secretary Hans Vijlbrief sits on a pink sofa and looks out of a window of the Media Centrale, in the direction of the FC Groningen stadium. End of Tuesday afternoon. “Are they behind? That’s the end of practice, guys. The poison cup must be completely empty.”
A first question is quickly asked. Whether there was no amount for a new striker in that plan that he presented on Tuesday afternoon together with Prime Minister Mark Rutte in the Dorpshuis in Garmerwolde – a total of 22 billion euros. Vijlbrief, a Feyenoord supporter since childhood, has to laugh.
“When you get into this situation, it’s like the devil is playing with it. You can’t get out. I watched last Saturday. FC Emmen is behind. I think this is an opportunity. But no. Emmen wins in injury time and FC Groningen is discontinued. This season is fun with Feyenoord, but I know what suffering is, guys.”
How was it today, among all those Groningers?
“We arrived at that room. And Mark Rutte got out quite early. I wanted to get out a little closer to the door. Otherwise you have that whole hedge of journalists walking with you. But it just didn’t work. We didn’t get there by car. Actually, it was not a suitable location for something so big.”
Why then did you choose that?
,, Choice of Rutte. He had accompanied me to the gas meeting there once. And he said, That’s the kind of room I want to do this in. Not in a posh provincial hall. I very much agreed with him. You want to present it to people. The people here are obviously hyper involved. And that involvement varies. From angry to sad, hopeful. But they all have in common that they are involved. That’s why I got emotional too. I was watching someone. And then, it was like my text connected with that person. That all sounds very lyrical. So forgive me. But then something happens in your head.”
In your speech you addressed a boy from Appingedam, Mark Rutte addressed Susan Top, those are conscious choices. Why?
“To talk about people here. When I took this job, I thought really hard: How can I do this without falling into the trap of being just a driver again after all. When you’re behind a desk, there are a hundred thousand barriers to doing what it takes. Really and truly. For example, if I ask a civil servant: give me ten reasons not to implement measure 27 from the report, then I will get them. You have to choose very consciously to take the perspective of the people. That’s the only way you can do this.”
How do they view you in The Hague?
,,I may not blow out of the Council of Ministers, but I will do it once. I have always opened with almost the same quote, namely: The survey report is very serious. And if you thought it was serious. Then do it two more times. Then you get close to how serious it is. And so I tried to bridge the gap with ministers who have not been here very often. And I do think that at some point I did convey that feeling. At a meeting last week I said to Marjo van Bergen (mental counselor in the earthquake area, ed.): I still think that people in The Hague don’t know how bad this is. Still not. You can also see it in how I talk about it. And how Sandra Beckerman (SP Member of Parliament, ed.) talks about it. He has much more right to speak, by the way, than I do. You have to be here to feel how torn the area is by that misery.”
What should residents of Groningen think of this?
“I have always chosen to choose Groningen. And it’s not because I’m holy and the others are stupid. But people feel like they’re running into some sort of machine. That is incredibly dangerous. When a government opens up to its own citizens. Of course we know many examples of this from abroad. That’s very dangerous. And what do I think of that? I think that’s very bad.”
Why is this report called Nij Begun?
“I liked Nij Begun. In Groningen, yes. My Groningen political assistant came up with that. I liked it. Because it represents something of, kind of that last chance. The people of Groningen understand very well that it will not be settled tomorrow with the magic wand, but it must really be a new beginning. Without macho behavior, the gorilla on the monkey rock who says: I’m going to do it and everything will be different for me. It also comes a bit from the long conversations I’ve had with people here. It’s a kind of catharsis. A kind of cleaning. So you can continue afterwards. But the big question, of course, is… If I come back to the area in three months, and people haven’t noticed…”
Do you fear that?
“For some things you just need legislative changes. But of course people don’t care one bit here. If I’m going to try to explain to people why things are slow…”
The administrators in the region want 5.1 billion to get Groningen off the gas. That amount will not be reflected in your plans.
“Our analysis is that at that time – before 2035 – you would not be able to make the entire area completely natural gas-free. So we took a smaller amount.”
The regional administrators think that what you offer on behalf of the cabinet is too meager.
“We started with the report of the committee of inquiry and the regional administrators. And they said: The worst thing The Hague has done – apart from the damage and repair problems – is making agreements and not keeping them. That has happened time and time again. And I had to agree with them. So I thought: how do you connect that region and the rest of the Netherlands in such a way that this cannot happen again? You have to do something for a generation and connect that with a financial cleverness. And that cleverness is that we now have 250 million euros available per year for sustainability and a social and economic perspective. For 30 years. Linked to a plan with goals. Which you can check commercially. And with that I oblige The Hague to take an interest in this region. We write in the law that there will be a state of Groningen. That there will be a meeting with Groningen every six months. And there it is said: there are goals and indicators and there is a flow of money. And we think this money is enough to carry out that agenda.”
And thirty years is long enough?
“Yes, someone said to me: you should have said sixty years. The committee of inquiry spoke of a generation. That is not sixty years, that is less than thirty years, I believe. It’s the generational approach.”
The committee of inquiry was talking about permanent money, wasn’t it?
,,Yeah, fine. Thirty years is quite permanent in financial terms.”
The committee did not specify an amount. The region is talking about 30 billion euros. You say 250 million for thirty years, that is 7.5 billion.
“You can’t really count that way. On top of that is 250 million NPG money, money for infrastructure, the N33, that railway line I’m always afraid I won’t remember the name of. The Lower Saxony line, yes. An additional 500 million will be added for social perspective. That is still considerably less than what the region was asking for, indeed. But it is my analysis that this should be enough. The committee of inquiry says: what you have to do with that debt of honor is to make amends for what has happened and to provide a sustainable economic perspective. And of course there must be enough money for damage and reinforcement. Yes, you know. Someone else may think otherwise. I can’t help that. Those differences are there.”
What was the atmosphere like at the provincial house last week during the talks about this?
“Well, not bad at all.”
We can’t imagine that. You walked away from the table once.
,,No not at all. Not there. Already in the pre-negotiation. Of course there were, yes. I can have something fiery. I get really angry sometimes. I would have picked up a cigarette if I was still smoking.”
Were you angry last week?
“No, neither. It was really not unpleasant last week. The regional administrators are happy with how I give that ‘commitment’ in ugly Dutch form. They like that. And then we don’t agree on the sizing. They would have liked to see a different amount. A larger amount. More for infrastructure. Yes that is allowed. And it was sometimes serious, you know.”
What is serious?
“When Annalies Usmany (Alderman of Eemsdelta, ed.) talks about the reinforcement and what is going wrong. Well, that hits pretty hard.”
But why then have you linked an amount to damage repair and reinforcement?
“Because the Ministry of Finance wants to see an estimate. That’s just technique. There is no such thing as ‘we do what is necessary’.
But if that amount is too low, money will be added?
“Yes, you can translate it that way. We do what is necessary. But that estimate must be in the books. And you can’t put in that ‘we do what it takes’. I worked there for years myself. Imagine: the vacation of a lifetime. And you say: we are going to spend what we want. But then your wife comes to you and says: but what do you think of spending? And then you name an amount. But if we want another Cubra Libre, or Or another Pina Colada, we’ll just do it. This is an ugly comparison, but you know what I mean.
One of the committee’s recommendations was that talks should be held with Groningen residents about how to pay off that debt of honor. That hasn’t happened yet, has it?
,,Of course. I have done that already. Since then, yes. I’ve had a lot of casual conversations. I’ve had two long evenings. In Spoorzicht in Loppersum. Those were tough evenings. Those were all the people with complaints I had ever invited to my home. A difficult room with 45 people, I think. We first talked about the report itself and then I talked to them about damage repair and reinforcement two weeks ago. I tested very much what good ideas are. And I’ve talked to drivers a lot…”
But that was not the recommendation: go and talk to drivers…
,,Beats. I also talked to civil society organizations. I’ve talked to spiritual counselors. With the earthquake coaches. So I really tried to speak to as many people as possible. I don’t imagine I’ve covered everything with that. Last week RTV Noord gave me 500 ideas from people who had approached RTV Noord. And there are ideas in between that I can say, yes I did. There are also ideas that we are not going to do. I’m not going to refund the WOZ value of every Groninger.”
Mark Rutte has apologized on behalf of the cabinet. Jan Wigboldus, of the Gasberaad, said to us: have you kept track? How many times was this?
“I can totally imagine that feeling. We’ve talked about it. We literally talked about it, Mark Rutte and I. And the prime minister said: I think I should do this, because I’ve never done it in Groningen, in front of a room with Groningen people. So I’m going to say it one more time. I thought he said it nicely today – not to slime it down. But I can understand that there were people in the room who thought: yes, we’ve heard that a number of times. And what do we actually do with that? They would benefit more, I think, if the government now takes the measures contained in this report seriously. So I’m really going to sit on it. Like a buck on the oat box. On those fifty measures. Because if I can’t do that, then I’m gone.”
Is that a deal? Weird expression, but…
,,I get that. No, I don’t want a deal. I really tie my fate to it. If I don’t get this done properly, I don’t dare come here anymore. Honestly. Then I won’t go into that room again. Because, yes, then I’ve lost all my credibility. I cannot remain Secretary of State if at some point I have to conclude that things are not going well.”
But first the House of Representatives will deal with that clean-up, as you called the report, right?
“Yes, everything is up to the House of Representatives. If the House thinks – because that’s where you want to go – that this report of the committee of inquiry also has political consequences, then I will see it. I’m super relaxed about that.”