“Do you know what Tinder is?” asks Celia, a youth who describes herself as non-binary to the pope. “No, honey, I don’t know. Now I feel old-fashioned.” The pope quickly gets the laughs on his side.
Celia says she has found a partner on Tinder, and is non-binary and Christian at the same time, which is sometimes difficult. “Do you see a place in the Church for LGBT people, transsexuals and non-binary people?” Without hesitation, Francis replies that God is a father who excludes no one. Those who use the Bible to propagate hatred against those who are not heterosexual, the pope describes as “infiltrators, who use the Church for their own personal narrow-mindedness.”
In itself, the conversation between the pope and the non-binary youth contains no news, because ten years ago this pope reached out to the LGBT community with the statement “who am I to judge?” But the conversation is part of a new, and striking Spanish-language documentary. This is special, not because Francis would break with the well-known line on theological level – he also repeats this time that women will remain excluded from the priesthood – but because the pope does not shy away from any tricky subject in a group discussion with ten young people or prickly question dodging.
Also read this analysis about ten years of Pope Francis: He creates space without changing Catholic teaching
Amen: Francisco responde (Amen: Francis Answers), a documentary by Spanish directors Jordi Evole and Marius Sanchez, was shot in June 2022 in a former wool factory in Rome. Just before Easter weekend, the documentary was put on the streaming platform Disney +. On various news sites, especially the statements about sex were highlighted there. The pope describes sex as “one of the most beautiful things that God gave to man.” Striking, for a man who confides to the young people that he used to be in a relationship, but when he became a priest he opted for celibacy. He also says that “expressing yourself sexually is a wealth,” that “sex has its own dynamics and a reason for being,” and “is an expression of love.”
Pornography and masturbation
The context in which the pope makes those statements, however, is just as fascinating as those individual quotes themselves. A little earlier in the group discussion, Alejandra, a young Colombian, introduced herself as an online sex worker. For example, the group tackles the theme of pornography and masturbation, something against which the very Catholic María from Spain strongly protests. The pope decides to moderate, describing sex in itself as something very positive, but also adding that pornography “does not help a person to grow,” and compares it to drugs.
The Spanish documentary makers have carefully selected the ten young people. They are between twenty and twenty-five years old and because the official language is Spanish, they come from Spain, Colombia, Peru, Argentina and the US. There is also one Spanish-speaking young man from Senegal, Khadim, the only Muslim. The rest is a mix of very devout Catholic to atheistic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBwYpUYQaTQ
Lucía, a retired nun from Peru, says she experienced her religious initiation into the order as a form of psychological abuse. Not only did she disengage, but she is no longer religious. She describes herself as “much calmer and also much happier.” Francis acknowledges that she experienced abuses of power in the convent, and that the best thing to do is to distance herself from such a situation. As for her faith, he says he will not try to change her mind. But then he adds that “even now there is someone to guide you on your path.” From Lucía he harvests a radiant smile.
Right to abortion
Milagros, on the other hand, is a young Argentinian who is very active in her parish, and at the same time defends the right to abortion. Why, she asks the pope, does the Church actually guilt-trip women who have a pregnancy interrupted? The pope replies that he asks priests to show mercy to such women, and not to leave them alone. “But,” says Francis, “that is something else than also justifying it.”
Read also: In the Netherlands too, bishops and cardinals perpetuated abuse
Juan, a young man from Spain, finds it hypocritical that the Church defends the right to life so strongly on abortion, but still does not fight vigorously against pedophilia. Strongly emotional, Juan tells how he was abused as a child in an Opus Dei school. Visibly moved, Pope Francis lowers his gaze. The perpetrator received a very light sentence from a civil court, and the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith decided to file the case. The pope says he wants the matter re-examined, and that the zero-tolerance policy he introduced resulted in clergy and laity being punished and “priests in jail everywhere.” But the culture of abuse has not been eradicated, the young people argue.
They are frank – and Francis certainly is. Did he ever feel alone? Of course, says the pope, who admits he misses his family in Argentina at the Vatican: “We were very close.” Some youths patronize him, and someone mistakenly refers to him as “the pastor.” Francis does not get hung up on it, as long as the conversation with the young people is about something essential. The result is a stimulating, and sometimes even exciting documentary.