Chris Julien, the thinker of Extinction Rebellion, is weighed down by the facts

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In daily life, Julien works for Waag, a think tank that searches for what technology can contribute to a sustainable, just society. At the same time, he is obtaining his PhD on an ecophilosophy for the new climate era. And he is – although no longer officially – intensively involved in the Dutch branch of Extinction Rebellion (XR), where he unofficially fulfills the role of house intellectual. In opinion pieces and on social media, he regularly shows himself to be a researcher of the climate debate. For example, he is often critical of the media, which still does not sufficiently recognize the seriousness of the climate problem. When a medium places a photo of cheerful bathers with a report about yet another weather record and not of, for example, a forest fire or a thirsty refugee, Julien is usually the first to sound the alarm.

Aspiring activists – including many prominent figures – are expected to attend Julien’s presentation before they become active for XR. He guides them in this slide for slide past the terrifying facts about climate change. For example, his name popped up when actress Carice van Houten NRC talked about her ‘conversion’ to the climate movement. During a lecture, Julien confronted her “very calmly and factually” – indeed once again – with the facts. The presentation consists of a multitude of graphs and photos of the disasters that are already happening as a result of the warming planet. The first slide contains a depressing message that sums up the rest: we are fucked.

Sitting in the garden, the conversation flows from tips on how to naturalize your garden in such a way that birds and insects feel welcome to the question of how exactly you should weigh those climate facts. It turns out to be a core question for Julien, one that he believes determines what the world should do.

What are we looking at when we look at climate change?

“Towards a form of large-scale violence, actually. When you think of violence, you think of men shouting and fighting with each other. But climate change is a form of slow violence. There are even people who say it amounts to genocide. Then of course you can say: tut, tut, tut, I’ll just get in my car. But it is a form of institutional violence.”

Whether you call it genocide or not, it now seems obvious to me that climate change is mass murder

Do you also see it as genocide?

“I think you can legitimately say that. Genocide is of course a questionable term, because it concerns violence against population groups. You may wonder: which people are being exterminated here? But ‘white innocence’ also plays a role in that question. That you deny the existence of a colonial legacy. Whereas, if you look at the facts, you see that historically this violence takes place from the north to the south. So whether you call it genocide or not, it now seems obvious to me that climate change is mass murder.”

Some ethicists call it a moral duty to stop the perpetrators of mass murder, if necessary with violence. If, as you do, you choose to see climate change as genocide or mass murder, what are you to do?

“One of the principles of XR is: ‘No blaming and shaming, we’re all part of a toxic system.‘ This applies, for example, to the criticism you sometimes hear that our activists – especially the prominent ones – are still flying. That kind of criticism doesn’t seem very fruitful to me. At the same time: of course you have people who, due to their position, bear more responsibility than others. So I think it would be a good idea to conduct the discussion with such clarity. If you consider that Tata Steel will not have changed its course until 2030, while continuing on this path according to calculations by scientists who ‘carbon mortality’ at least investigate twenty thousand heat deaths has as a consequence. Yes, then you may wonder how that outweighs the nine thousand jobs that you as a manager say you want to protect. Whether or not you, as a boss, are the right person for that role, let’s say.”

But wondering whether someone who – in your view – is complicit in mass murder is in the right place is different from forcibly removing someone from that place. Where is the line for you?

“Of course, sometimes you feel the urge or have hateful fantasies. Then a plane passes by and you feel so much anger about the indifference with which people knowingly continue to contribute to global warming. But although it may be morally defensible and you may even have some effect in the short term – at least if it actually stops the evil – I think it is not very fruitful. It creates opposing forces in society that take you even further away from home. Ultimately, individualism only takes us so far. So holding specific individuals responsible, or even punishing them, only helps partially.”

The reflections on violence contrast with the exuberant birdsong in Julien’s garden. And actually also with Julien himself. The philosopher, who formulates in rather academic sentences, usually does not convince with war rhetoric, but with more subtle reflections and – in his jargon – ‘social interventions’.

For example, on June 21 this year, Julien organized one Midsummer Night celebration, a group walk through a piece of urban nature near Amsterdam Science Park, a collection of university buildings near Diemen. The parade passed various installations where artists and ecologists tried to create nature experiences in the middle of the stony desert. One tried to make a kind of shelter if the wolf reached Amsterdam, the other set up a greenhouse in which students learned to care for a number of plants together.

During the walk, his status within the climate movement was noticed. Although he was not in the lead – because he had to take it easy – he was constantly accosted. He candidly told everyone about his attempt to avoid burnout by transferring tasks and seeking out nature.

Even now that he has resigned from his official XR management duties, he is regarded by the outside world as the face and conscience of the Dutch branch of the movement. Then XR recently in the magazine OneWorld was under fire for the ‘too white’ character of the movement, he was one of those who was approached to respond to the criticism. The answer typified the way he expresses himself: “In terms of content, I found it a bit difficult to receive it here and there.” Then take the criticism in one go to embrace and nuance.

During the group walk he proudly shows the seedlings from his own garden that he has donated to the greenhouse along the route. Although the installations were set up as a temporary laboratory, he hopes that they will have a long life.

In light of the world problems you are concerned about, these kinds of interventions seem small, almost futile. Yet you are not only committed to an end to fossil subsidies, but also to urban nature.

“These places can stimulate a love for nature. When you love something, you want to take care of it. This is especially necessary in the Science Park, where it revolves around hard science. It contributes to something that we as rational, enlightened people are in danger of losing. Look at how modern people claim and design this space for themselves. We are also saying to the university board: leave the scarce green space open. And then look what happens.”

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A course, protests and these kinds of ‘interventions’ in the landscape. You seem to be constantly looking for ways to get people to repent. Is XR a kind of climate church and are you the pastor?

Laughing: “I think that’s a nice intersection, actually. The individual is not the end of meaning. The unfolding climate disaster also creates a sense of community. At XR it is important that we also take care of each other. We are a movement of people and for us people are not a means to an end. That’s why we check in with each other before every action and meeting. We want to know from each other how we are doing that day, how we are feeling.” If someone is not feeling well enough, he or she is urged to attend the action that day from the sidelines.

The conversation in Julien’s garden is interrupted three times: by a neighbor who wants back a lent tool, by someone who complains about the leaves falling on the sidewalk from Julien’s wild garden and by a neighbor who comes to talk in detail about his operation. . “That’s the great thing about living in a working-class neighborhood,” says Julien, laughing after the third interruption. “And important to remember for the climate movement: ultimately you will have to do it together with your neighbors. That appeals to me in the image of a church or community. That you also work with people that you would not easily pick out.”

Some new activists even speak of a moment of conversion. Did you also have a moment like that?

“I don’t have such a spectacular conversion story, but there were certainly moments when I felt deep in my body: this is going wrong. For example, I was once sitting at a station reading an article about how warming the oceans would cause a total underwater extinction wave. The comprehensiveness of the problem then suddenly grabbed me.”

To minds shaped by the Enlightenment, this may seem like a paradox: that you have to feel the facts before you understand them. For Julien, that paradox does not exist. He repeatedly mentions how much he learns from non-Western world views. As a born Australian, he is particularly interested in indigenous ideas. “The contradiction between head and heart does not exist there. We can still learn something from that.”

Do you ever lose sleep over the responsibility that comes with the role of prophet of doom? All those people who have been ‘converted’ by your presentation and may end up in climate depression…

“Yes, that is why I am now slowing down with my presentations. You mess up a lot in people’s lives. That is sometimes quite intense. But I am convinced: only when you feel the despair about our extinction inside you can you really take action.”

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A version of this article also appeared in the September 18, 2023 newspaper.