Jürgen Dusel has been the Federal Government Commissioner for the Affairs of People with Disabilities since 2018. The 58-year-old is also a football fan with great sympathy for FC Energie Cottbus. In an interview with Sportschau he criticizes German football for not having enough accessibility and inclusion. He calls the behavior of the German Football League (DFL), its clubs and municipal stadium operators unprofessional and discriminatory with regard to the lack of wheelchair spaces.
Sports show: Mr. Dusel, in Germany there is a model meeting place regulation. This stipulates that one percent of all seats in stadiums with up to 5,000 seats and 0.5 percent of all seats in larger stadiums must be reserved for wheelchair users. 13 of 16 federal states adopted the 1:1 ratio. But no German stadium meets this requirement. How can that be?
Jürgen Dusel: That is bitter. Of course, you have to ask yourself what the supervisory authorities will do if such places don’t come into being. It is not just a question of fairness that people with disabilities have access to stadiums and that they can then actually enjoy the sporting experience – it is a question of law.
Sports show: During our research, we learned that the building authorities are happy to make exceptions for their stadium operators and clubs. It is said that this also has something to do with the football lobby.
Dusel: I can’t confirm that from my point of view. All I can say is that there are regulations that must be adhered to. It’s not a question of charity or ‘nice to have‘, but the Federal Republic of Germany has ratified the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities – i.e. made it into applicable law. It wasn’t just the federal government that did this. The states in the Federal Council have also raised their finger.
And it describes that people with disabilities have a legal right to access to the built environment. Article nine. And also to sports facilities – according to Article 30. And I think it is the responsibility of the state, and in this case I specifically mean the states, to ensure that this participation also takes place. The fact that I can live this right as a disabled person is a democratic principle.
Sports show: According to the assembly venue regulations, there should be around 7,400 wheelchair spaces in the stadiums of the first and second Bundesliga. But there are only about 3,000. Tickets become a rare commodity if, for example, there are only 72 wheelchair spaces in Dortmund instead of the actually prescribed 425.
Dusel: This shows how far we are from inclusion. I would prefer it if we, so to speak, ‘ddesign for all‘ could produce. So that people in wheelchairs don’t have to sit somewhere behind the boards, but rather that they have access to wherever possible – in the VIP area as well as in the fan block. Where you want to go as a fan.
It is very important that we realize that accessibility is the prerequisite for successful inclusion. It doesn’t work if, for example, I can’t get to the stadium bar in my wheelchair after the game. Or when I’m not able to exchange ideas during the game because wheelchair users are sitting alone somewhere. So if there are no encounters, then what is so important for our society, namely togetherness, will not occur.
Sports show: But that is exactly what is often emphasized as the great merit of football.
Dusel: I note that Germany has applied for the Women’s World Cup in 2027 and will host the Men’s European Championship in 2024. Stadiums are also a showcase, a showcase for accessibility. Accessibility is a quality feature for a modern country. So I would like the women to become world champions and the men’s national team to become European champions. But when it comes to accessibility, we are not just a district league.
Sports show: Organizations of those affected have been complaining for a long time that the accessibility laws in Germany are based too much on voluntary action and are therefore not strict enough.
Dusel: We have Unfortunately, the situation in Germany is still that we do not yet require private providers of products and services (this also includes organizers such as the DFL and clubs, editor’s note) to be barrier-free. A change in the law should now be initiated. The Federal Disability Equality Act. And then the states take over. So that not only is the way to the town hall traditionally barrier-free for disabled people, but people can also go to the cinema, the theater and the stadium. Because we in Germany are really not good at this compared to other countries.
Sports show: The DFL has regulations for its game operations that go into very detailed detail. Anyone who does not meet these requirements as a club will not receive a license. But when it comes to the number of wheelchair spaces, recommendations from the DFL remain. How do you rate that?
Dusel: The following also applies to the DFL: It is not an act of charity, but we live in a democracy in the Federal Republic of Germany. Everyone has the same rights, no one is worth more than the other. Democracy and inclusion are essentially two sides of the same coin. And you could then say: If inclusion doesn’t take place properly, then certain people also have a democracy problem.
So, I expect the DFL and also the Bundesliga clubs to improve in this area. Not because it’s an act of caring, but people with disabilities are fans like everyone else. It’s a question of Fair playthat people with disabilities can of course participate.
Sports show: Especially since the DFL itself recognized in 2018 that the clubs would actually have to double their wheelchair spaces – with a view to socio-political and demographic developments.
Dusel: We live in an aging society. And that is indeed a socially important question, ensuring that the mobility-impaired grandfather can come to games with his granddaughter. I think it’s ultimately a question of the quality of football and the structures around football.
Sports show: For EURO 2024, at the request of the European Football Union UEFA, 454 additional wheelchair spaces and 200 to 300 additional ones will be added to the ten German stadiums Easy access-Spots created for fans with limited mobility. But they will be dismantled at many locations after the tournament.
Dusel: I find that crazy. That’s almost cynical too. To say that we are doing this now because we are told so from outside – and then we build back again. That’s not sustainable either, it’s not professional. And that’s why I expect that not to happen. I would be very surprised if clubs could actually do that with a clear conscience.
Sports show: In Dortmund, for example, the 144 wheelchair spaces are to become 72 again during the EURO.
Dusel: And that’s why legal regulations are needed to prevent this. So we can’t always just rely on voluntariness and insight. We have to change the legal framework with appropriate transition periods. That may not work for the 2024/25 season. But you have to deal with it. Anyone who doesn’t have this on their radar these days is unprofessional. He’s doing a bad job. According to our constitution, no one should be disadvantaged because of a disability. If football fans in wheelchairs encounter barriers, then that’s not okay.
Sports show: The Bundesliga clubs and the DFL always hold the flag of inclusion very high on special diversity match days and in image campaigns. Why is reality lagging behind?
Dusel: Many people do inclusion these days because it’s fashionable. But inclusion is not about something fashionable. It’s about something democratic. And that’s why you could say: You should know them not by their words, but by their deeds. So on the one hand, it is of course good that children with disabilities, for example, can play in football games. But that’s not enough; you have to approach the issue structurally. And that means specifically: creating access for people with disabilities. What right do we have to hold on to a structure that actually excludes people?
Sports show: The head of the Federal Agency for Accessibility, Volker Sieger, says: The clubs are not responding for financial reasons. Wheelchair spaces don’t bring any money.
Dusel: This shouldn’t have to do with money; these are citizens and they have the right to access. And if you don’t do that, there must actually be consequences for you. Personally, I am of the opinion that at some point this must lead to claims for damages if I am unable to participate as a person with a disability. This is ultimately discrimination. This must be made clear to everyone responsible for football.
The interview was conducted by Matthias Wolf