‘I think it’s a lot that 150,000 people watch Moped at sea. Three big stadiums full!’

With or without Wilfried de Jong?

‘Of. In the almost twenty years that I now interview for the VRT (the Flemish public broadcaster, red.) I’ve stuck to someone five times. That also happened to Wilfried in 2015.

‘I invited him to a program on Radio 1 where I let guests talk about records. Among other things, he told very intensely how he had once had to go to the hospital after falling six meters from a stage, and that the feeling returned to his body when he listened to a friend’s advice. April in Paris by Charlie Parker. He overwhelmed me with his jazz knowledge – he knows a lot, but hardly ever displays it.

‘It turned out that we thought the same about many things and we met more and more after that. And when I was once with something, I suddenly thought: I’ll call Wil. Then you notice, without thinking about it, that you are friends.

‘Bee Moped at sea we interview and present completely differently. I think in arcs – the guest now says this, I’ll ask about that later because then it comes together nicely – but that madman is much more intuitive. He races right through my arc by suddenly starting on a completely different topic, even if we only have a minute left before the conversation. But he is almost always right and it makes the conversation better.’

Talking about the book or the writer’s life?

‘About the book. Because at Moped at sea a conversation with a writer lasts fifteen minutes, we have to make choices. We believe the viewer should get an idea of ​​the content of the book, so that means you can’t always talk about the writers’ personal lives.

‘In the program we set few genres aside. Science fiction was discussed during our conversation with Auke Hulst about his book The Mitsukoshi Comfort Baby Company. With Colson Whitehead we discussed a crime novel, Harlem Shuffle. Children’s literature and graphic novels have also been featured. It is true that it often refers to ‘higher’ literature. That has nothing – is that word allowed in bold? – to do with disdain, but with the taste of our editors and with the broadcaster that broadcasts it, the VPRO. In addition, writers of more popular books can already tell their story in talk shows. We also welcome writers who may not be sold much, but whose books do have value.

‘The fact that 150,000 people are looking at that is actually quite a lot in my opinion. That’s three big stadiums full! And they watch a 45-minute program about the connecting power of stories, about literature from South Africa.

‘We discuss four or five books per episode. Wilfried and I have both read them completely. I fear that we are exceptions, I often have the feeling that a presenter is given the questions about a book by an editor. That I do it has to do with a sense of duty. I learned that from my upbringing and now I pass it on to my children. They have to be tough and always give 100 percent their best. I sometimes find that annoying about myself.’

Netherlands or Belgium?

‘Belgium. I have lived happily here in Antwerp all my adult life, even though it seemed like the Netherlands for the past few weeks. Face masks are obvious to us, but that is much less the case for the Dutch who were here, I noticed.

‘The Dutch are much more direct. I myself avoid conflicts and do not dare to say so quickly if something is not going well, but the Dutch do. They are also much less hierarchical. Someone recently stopped by the editors of Moped at sea. I asked who that was. Oh, that was one of the editors-in-chief of the VPRO. You didn’t notice that anywhere else.’

Smooth or stammering conversation?

‘I do not want that Moped at sea known as the stammering conversation program, but it can take place with us.

‘But that doesn’t change the fact that if something goes well, as with Lisa Weeda, a debutant with no television experience as far as I know… man, what a party that is. We asked a first question and – bam! – she chatted everything out. Sovereign she spoke about her book Alexandra, about Ukraine, about the Donbas. How current can it be? I prefer a smooth conversation.

‘But long live the stammering, sometimes. There is much more truth in a silence, or in someone who does not express something easily than in the smooth chatter of a politician, for example. And in life we ​​stumble and stumble every now and then, don’t we? Then as an interviewer you are only the midwife for a while – is that also a word in the Netherlands? – which should help the delivery on its way.

Wilfried and I had to gain the trust of writers. When we met Moped at sea started, guests didn’t know how we worked and, above all, they wanted to quickly clarify what was good about their book. They now know that it is our intention to let writers tell what they want to do in their book as best as possible.’

Hugues C. Pernath or Rachel Cusk?

‘Pernath. You will never forget first loves. He was a Fleming (1931-1975, red.) who wrote about the great things: truth, lies, love, death, friendship. When I read his work as a 17-year-old, it was the first time I completely surrendered to art.

‘To my friends I won’t name Because the naming humbles the friendship And the humiliation breaks the joy That between you and me, between me and you Will make the hunting years bearable.

“I may not understand this on a literal level, but elsewhere. And that intersection between ‘you’ and ‘me’, it so beautifully reflects the close connection of friendship. It says something essential. And then those hunting years, don’t tell me, I’m in the middle of it!’

Would you like to interview Mark Rutte or Arnon Grunberg?

‘Sorry about Arnon, but then I’ll go for Mark Rutte. I have never spoken to him, unlike Arnon.

‘But in general I like interviewing writers better. After that I regularly have the feeling that it came close to what it should have been – I am never completely satisfied. I don’t have that much with politicians. I often interview them for The morning, the program I present every other week from six to nine on Flemish Radio 1, and then they often give rehearsed answers. If you repeat your question four times, it looks like a critical interview. But more interesting is to ask why they don’t want to answer.

‘I think people who say that reporting on, for example, pfas is ‘the issues of the day’ are intellectually lazy. Because under the delusions of the day there is always something essential. The job of journalism is to expose that.

‘The morning presenting is a stimulating, satisfying job. I wake people up with the news, and especially on the radio that is something intimate. If I’m not there on Monday, listeners text to ask if there’s anything.

“The job is important, but tough. During this period, the amount of rubbish that you get as a presenter of the VRT – a broadcaster that some people see as left-wing – is greater than ever.’

Morning or evening person?

‘Evening person. If I The morning present, I do not get up in the morning but at night, at a quarter past three. Terrible. I once posted a picture of my alarm clock on social media, but then I resolved not to complain about it anymore. Otherwise I shouldn’t have done it. Moreover, around that time, people also get up to wake people up and wash them. Or to build streets with a jackhammer.

‘Also because my children are getting older now, I go to bed way too late, at half past nine. When I come home in the afternoon, I often take a nap. I’m 46, I’m not made of stone anymore. Tired is sleeping.’