It had made little difference, or this interview would not have been. In mid -August, Stephan van Baarle suddenly announced the end of his leadership at DENK to. “With pain in my heart I withdraw as a party leader,” he wrote on X. “The actions of the party board have undermined and made my role as a party leader.” He didn’t want to say more about it.
Less than a week later, Van Baarle returned to his decision.
If we speak to him three weeks later, he still does not want to explain where the high fight between the now resigned party board and the parliamentary group passed.
The only thing he wants to get rid of is that he “looks ahead.” “Also because of the fact that many people in society see that we are doing too much here in The Hague by having endless discussions about what we think of each other.”
It is established that Van Baarle came into conflict with the party board in July about the concept candidate list for the upcoming elections. He would not have received a say in the composition of the list he had to lead, sources say.
His two groupmates, Dogukan Ergin and Ismail El Abassi, started a campaign to have him return. In A dramatic video They addressed the then chairman of the board Ejder Köse. “How can you go so far that your Stephan is trying to get away?” The local think departments also supported the party leader.
Van Baarle said in A worn video message not to be able to “ignore” the “overwhelming statements of support”. The fact that he returned to his decision was due to the ‘compare’ achieved: the board resigned, under pressure. Party celebrity Tunahan Kuzu, a confidant of Van Baarle, is now chairman of the interim board.
We hear that the group wanted ‘continuity’ from the top three. But these elections were also a chance to go to the top of the electoral list for a woman …
“In 2023, two very prominent MPs, Farid Azarkan and Tunahan Kuzu, have chosen not to continue. I know what it means to have to build something from such a situation. To say that it should be different in early elections-I would not want to enter into that as a team captain at the moment.
“The last parliamentary elections did not make up for us or we had achieved that fourth seat. In that sense, we consciously chose to put a woman in that fourth place in the upcoming fourth place [Elif Esen]and also on the fifth [Nassira Abaâziz]. I believe we can get that fifth seat. And then we clearly opt for female representation. “
Where do you see growth potential for that fourth or fifth seat?
“For people who stay at home now. I want to say to them: use your voting rights. If you are not sitting at the table where the decisions are made, you are on the menu yourself.”
Who exactly are you talking about?
“People who live in Rotterdam-Zuid. People who live in New West in Amsterdam, in the Schilderswijk in The Hague. In some neighborhoods, the turnout is only 20, 30 percent.”
Many people see think as a party for Turkish-Dutch. Do you find that right?
“When Tunahan Kuzu and Selcuk Öztürk were removed from the Labor Party, they were talking about ‘the Turkish MPs’. Then Farid Azarkan came to the party, then they were talking about ‘an Islamic party’. In the time of Sylvana Simons they were talking about ‘a cure for a migration background – then’. more.
“All those labels make it clear that we are not there for one specific group. We focus on all Dutch people. But what we find is that there is a major problem with discrimination and racism in society, which is increasing enormously. We make it a very big point of that.”
Your struggle for equal rights pinches when we look at the voting behavior of DENK in the field of gender and queere rights. You recently voted against the ban on conversion therapy, with which an attempt is made to ‘cure’ people of homosexuality.
“We are for the same treatment of everyone, and against discrimination based on faith, gender, but also orientation. At the same time, we should then agree with all the measures. We did support the motion that called for a ban on conversion therapy.”
That motion is, but not the initiative bill to criminalize conversion therapy.
“The Council of State and leading scientists have indicated that passages in that law have been formulated in such a way that it would offer too much uncertainty for the judiciary.”
You were also in favor of withdrawing the Transgender Act. In the 2023 campaign you acted against ‘Regenboogdwang’. You did not want a cabinet member to join the Pride in Budapest forbidden by the Hungarian government. That does put a certain image.
„Ik bestrijd het beeld dat wij zouden shoppen in artikel 1 van de Grondwet. Deelname aan Pride vonden we geen taak van de Nederlandse overheid. We steunden wel andere moties om in EU-verband maatregelen te nemen tegen Orbáns bedenkelijke trackrecord op het gebied van mensenrechten en rechtsstaat. Daarbij gaat het niet alleen om de vrije pers en de omgang met de oppositie, maar ook hoe wordt omgegaan met minderheden, waarbij ik in het bijzonder ook de positie noem van mensen uit the LGBTI community. ”
If you are not sitting at the table, you are on the menu yourself
Can you name an example of a domestic measure for the LGBTI community that DEND has supported?
“Well, not from the past period. But we have always supported the emancipation policy of OCW, which is also about discrimination against women and the LGBTI community. We have always spoken to the fight against discrimination. In all forms.”
You fight against extremely right -wing parties, but when it comes to queere rights you are in the same row in terms of voting behavior. Isn’t that uncomfortable?
“I find it terrible how, from the extreme right -wing movement, a very nasty, derogatory, old -fashioned and discriminatory way is talked about women and minorities. I distance themselves from that.”
And also about trans people?
“All groups where you can see that stigmas are being raised from the extreme right.”
Maybe you can walk with a pride once, to reinforce these words?
Van Baarle leans back, looks difficult. “I don’t rule it out, but I have not felt a need to do that lately. I think that is symbolic politics.”
It can be a signal.
“I think we can’t flatten the fight against discrimination to the issue of whether or not we participate in anything.”
Since the terror murders of Hamas in Israel on October 7, 2023 and the subsequent genocide of the Netanyahu government at the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza, think has been talking about almost nothing else in the Chamber and on social media. For example, Van Baarle believes that the Netherlands should condemn Israeli actions much more explicitly, and he has been arguing for sanctions and other measures such as a complete arms embargo, suspension of the association agreement between the EU and Israel and recognition of the Palestinian state for almost two years.
Former Minister of Foreign Affairs Caspar Veldkamp (NSC) resigned from the outgoing cabinet at the end of August, because he felt that he had too little room in the cabinet to implement measures against Israel.
What does Gaza tell you about Dutch politics?
“Gaza has dropped the mask among many politicians. People who adorn themselves with the feathers of international law and legalness are not worth that.”
Who do you mean?
“From left to right.”
Did this surprise you?
“I know that the struggle for the rights of Palestinians is one of the long breath, but it continues to shock me that some politicians have such a lack of humanity. It is still shocking that when you see that residential areas and refugee camps are bombed and care providers and children are killed, the parties even refuse to do what should be internationally.” The Netherlands has according to international law The duty to intervene with an imminent genocide.
On the left in particular, the House of Representatives has become more critical of Israel. Do you also see that as your merit?
“Our goal is to stand up for the Rights of Palestinians and ensuring that this genocide stops. And to achieve that, we need as much support as possible in society and parliament. Everyone who supports our proposals and ideals, I am naturally happy with that. At the same time, and I am unable to have a party like NSC now. Seated for two years, they did not go out for business with Netanyahu. ”
Are you referring to Veldkamp?
“Veldkamp, but also the entire NSC group, that whole party. I think that is witness to a criminal hypocrisy.”
Why do you also start about Gaza in debates that are not about Gaza, but about money laundering, for example?
“Because those debates are dealing with it. There are organizations in the Netherlands that support settlement organizations. These are financial flows in the direction of illegal settlements. And unfortunately the interdependence with Israel is in many areas. If you are talking about the economy: the Netherlands is one of the biggest investors there. That is how it applies to numerous areas.”
Who are your allies in the room?
“Everyone with whom we can realize our ideals.”
That is very politically correct …
“One political party, the PVV, we exclude it hard. We look at other parties per topic. Forum, VVD and BBB are for our parties with which we exclude cooperation, for example, as long as they propagate the position that ladies are not allowed to wear a headscarf with the police. Or if they continue to support the Israeli government. Or if they want to work on remigration background.”
You focus on heavy subjects such as Gaza and your self -proclaimed fight against the extreme right. Do you still see room for a hopeful story that people can go to the polls?
“Fortunately, we see in more and more places in our country that think of the management: in Schiedam, The Hague and Rotterdam. I also think of a poll It stated that DENK would be the fourth party in the country if only young people up to 35 years old were allowed to vote. Then I think: the best days are for us. “
SeriesInterviews with list leaders