Hi Michael, you were among others in the western city of Lviv and the port city of Odessa. So far they have been spared most of the war violence there, but since this week rockets have also hit there. How do the residents react?
“It seems that the Russian bombings are becoming more and more indiscriminate, hitting civilians more and more. This is interpreted here as a sign of the Russians’ frustration with the difficult course of the war.
‘There has been heavy fighting for Mykolaiv, the city that separates the Russian army from Odessa. Thirty kilometers north of it, the Russians have also wanted to make an outflanking move, but there they seem to have suffered a heavy defeat. The fighting was fierce, I saw many deaths in Mykolaiv, but the Russians were defeated by the Ukrainian army and civilians with Kalashnikovs. This allows Odessa to prepare for battle in relative peace.
“In Odessa they really feel they can stop the Russians. A Russian war fleet floats at sea, including landing vehicles. That is threatening, but they also think here: put those soldiers down on the beach and see what happens. I’ve seen trenches there, and a tank hidden behind beach houses. And the streets of Odessa are full of blockades. Every sandbag is an extra obstacle.’
Russia would bring troops from Chechnya and Syria to Ukraine. Do the Ukrainians see that as a danger?
“They joke about that. Those Syrians, they say, will freeze here as long as it’s cold. Videos of the Chechens are circulating in which they threateningly gather. The Ukrainians make fun of that a bit, like: they have no business here, they will get lost. Let them come here first.’
The end of the conflict is not yet in sight. How optimistic are the Ukrainians about the future?
“Nobody thinks it’s almost over. There are peace talks, but the least the Russians will demand is the Donbas, Luhansk and Crimea. When I ask Ukrainians if they would give it to Russia in exchange for peace, they look at me very strangely. The Donbas is Ukraine, Crimea is Ukraine; how could the russians keep it? They feel they have stopped the Russians in many places, or at least slowed them down a lot. I don’t think Ukraine will throw in the towel any time soon.’
‘I have to add: I spoke to the Ukrainians who stayed behind. Those who have fled and hope to return home may have other considerations. And I don’t know what the people in Mariupol, where the situation is much worse and where you can’t even escape as a civilian, think about it. There are so many civilian casualties there, that is a completely different situation.’
President Zelensky regularly criticizes Western countries for providing too little aid. Does that criticism also sound on the street?
‘Of course there is that discussion about setting up a no-fly zone, but I didn’t hear much about it here. They are happy with any foreigner who is there. No one has come up to me to say: you come from a country that doesn’t want to help us. People from emergency organizations are really embraced. I think that criticism is more heard at a political level than at a lower level, even if this is where most of the casualties are. The anger focuses almost exclusively on Russia and Putin.’
What was it like for you to move through Ukraine as a journalist?
‘On the outskirts of cities you have large roadblocks, with concrete and steel crosses, often there is also a tank. You will also come across a checkpoint every few kilometers along the way.
‘I have a special accreditation from the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense, which you have to show with your passport. That was always trusted and believed. They checked our car, then saw the helmets and bulletproof vests in the back, after which someone once jokingly asked: where is your Kalashnikov? If you go the unsafe way, they wish you strength. I’ve had more difficult checks in America.
‘Once inside Odessa there aren’t that many checkpoints, public transport just runs there. However, the center is completely closed. They are more suspicious there: you are only allowed in under the supervision of a soldier, who, for example, checks whether you are not taking pictures that might make the Russians wiser.
In the evening there is a curfew, you have to be inside by eight and everyone does that. Many people turn off their lights or darken their homes. I was with the photographer in a hotel where funnily enough there was a bar that had beer, even though alcohol is now banned. There were also folks there who looked as if they were smuggling often. We allowed ourselves one beer at the end of the day. That was nice.’