It is Thursday evening July 3, just before the summer recess. After a long and chaotic parliamentary debate over the asylum laws, ChristenUnie leader Mirjam Bikker takes the floor. Bikker, visibly excited, says: “Chairman, in what for constitutional mud pool we ended up today?” Immediately Roffel follows in the room tables, from several groups that share her displeasure.
It was in the Chamber that all day about an amendment from the PVV on the so -called ‘asylum measurement measures’, to criminalize illegality. The House of Representatives voted in favor, but parties such as NSC and SGP only realized afterwards what consequences it had. Help for people who stay ‘illegally’ in the Netherlands, for example by volunteers in the church who give people a cup of soup, would be punishable.
The parties regretted and wanted the Minister of Justice David van Weel (VVD) to promise an exception for this help. He would ask the Council of State for advice again. In the meantime, that has been given and the minister has promised to repair the law.
Why was you so displeased?
“I mainly saw election rhetoric with parties, but with that they destroy the legislation process in the room. I am a lawyer, I love good laws and I notice that it touches me. In this way you end up with the 4 percent of Dutch people who still have faith in politics. Old Pvda senator Willem Witteveen said: the law is no longer possible. counts. ”
What does that chaotic asylum debate about the politics of the moment at the moment?
“It is not an incident, but a pattern that we saw at this coalition from the beginning. While the voter thought: now something is going to happen. The opposite is true, there has been no solution. I had hoped that the ‘constitutional mud pool’ was a tilt point, but now the cabinet has fallen out of their hands again.”
The SGP voted for the controversial amendment on illegality. Is that party still a constitutional ally?
“I have addressed Chris Stoffer. Let’s hope it was one -off and the SGP remains on the constitutional path that always characterized her.”
Mirjam Bikker (1982) has been the chairman of the ChristenUnie since 2023. She succeeded Gert-Jan Segers, after the ChristenUnie had participated in the Rutte III and IV cabinets. Bikker can be sharp in the debate, but also stands out for her constructive attitude.
In room debates you often start your input with compliments to the other. Why are you doing that?
“That is who I am. In Utrecht, in my time as a councilor, I have learned that you do not have to write off someone with whom you fundamentally disrupt that. So if I am opposed to Wilders, I realize that he will hand in a lot when it comes to his security. Then I think it is right that I sometimes name it.”
Are you not normalizing the PVV by also complimenting Geert Wilders?
“No, because I will always indicate where I am a difference with Wilders. At the last parliamentary debate, about the departure of NSC, I was the first to get up to say that Wilders could take the mate, but that he was the biggest prutser in recent times.”
The ChristenUnie has drafted constructively towards the Cabinet Schoof, do you regret it?
“No. I always assume that politicians take their responsibility. But last fall I spent too many hours in Geert Wilders’ room to talk about the education budget. That should have happened at cabinet level. Not with coalition chairmen who are sorry to say – they did not get into the right. At the elaboration. we’re not again. ”
I was the first to get up to say that Wilders could take the size of NSC, but that he himself was the biggest prutser
Was your attitude not confusing: sharp criticism of the cabinet and yet negotiating?
“I don’t just want to call, but contribute to solutions. When I watch the cabinet against the crash barriers and as a prinzipienreiter Tell what is wrong with the other, I am not worth a cut. ”
While you find that the cabinet performed nothing and you were in the opposition, the ChristenUnie does not know how to benefit from the polls. Was your attitude effective?
“That depends on what you find effective. We are not set up to get fifty seats. We have always scored between three and six seats, and are appreciated by many more people. On the train I am approached almost every day by people who say: I am not of your party, but keep it up!”
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That must be frustrating, so much sympathy and yet few voices.
“Of course I hope we grow, but it doesn’t start with seats, but with ideals.”
In terms of content, your positioning is not easy, with the SGP on the right and the CDA that is now a bit more left -wing. What makes the CU distinctive?
“I don’t mind at all that the CDA of Bontenbal is more like the ChristenUnie than the CDA of Wopke Hoekstra. For example, at Volkshuisvesting I see that the CDA can now also agree with our views around the affordability of houses. But if you go a spade deeper, you will see differences. Another assessment.
“And when it comes to legalness, I also see a difference – but also with the SGP. Not only criminalizing help to illegal immigrants, we find a problem, also the criminalization of illegal immigrants themselves. We listen carefully to the police, the congregations, who say: do not do this to us. It is previously controlled and it is not a man to be illegal here.”
The CDA scores with honest politics and decency. Do you not think: damn it, Bontenbal has gone with my theme?
“No. I say: you can also go to the original. We will see if the changes at the CDA, which has a long history, have a stand. The CDA has always been a party that flies more from the compromise than from the ideal. Also think of family reunification, children belong to their parents. We keep our back there.”
A subject that has been causing unrest in the supporters of the ChristenUnie for a long time is the war in Gaza. Support for Israel was self -evident within the party for decades, but due to the destruction in Gaza, part of the members, including youth party perspective, has become more critical. This also applies to the tone of the ChristenUnie group towards the Netanyahu government, but the party hesitates on heavy sanctions.
What still needs to be done in Gaza before the ChristenUnie supports national sanctions against Israel?
“We are not against national sanctions, but for the most effective one. That is why we say: Take a European context. We support the leading group that Minister Brekelmans now wants to form. That works better than the Netherlands stands on its own finger.”
Sanctions with a leading group also take time, while the need in Gaza is so high.
“This also keeps me busy, I see the photos of people in Gaza who suffer, who starve … There is help now and well. That is why we were one of the first parties to say: participate in those food drops, even if that is not the most ideal remedy. And to my sorrow the motion is not accepted to bring children from Gaza who need medical help to the Netherlands.”
Does the ChristenUnie now think that there is a genocide in Gaza?
“Israel is held to international law and statements about genocide must be made at the International Court of Appeal. You see that experts have different views. Then I find it difficult to judge this with three seats from the Netherlands. Before you know it it will only be about the load of that word. So we always say, from 8 October 2023 by the way, that is not a meter, by the way, that that is the right to hold the right right, by the way, the right right right, right, right, right, right by, by the way, that is the right -wing meter. The Netanyahu government did not do it at different times, for example in the attack on the medical convoy.
Even with the threat of genocide you have to do ‘everything possible’ as a country. The Netherlands and also the ChristenUnie do that, do you?
“We try to ensure that humanitarian aid actually comes to Gaza, voted for limiting arms deliveries and have also supported that Israeli ministers who make terrible statements about the expulsion of Palestinians the Netherlands will no longer come in.”
Isn’t that possible?
“We want a road to peace instead of hardening the conflict. That is weighing every day, and we look a little further and further possible.”
Your love for Israel is great. Is it extra difficult to see what Israel is currently doing?
“If the ChristenUnie were to be in the Knesset-the Israeli parliament-we would be a solid opposition party, that is very clear. The Netanyahu government is the first government that I don’t see on peace and that is very painful. But I do feel with the tens of Israelis who are free and those in the street and those who have been on the street and those.”
But I feel with the Israelis who are on the street every day and who ask to end the war and release the hostages
The CDA has recently become more critical when it comes to Israel.
“There is indeed a difference, the CDA wants to recognize the Palestinian state. We also support the right to self -determination of the Palestinian people, but we are not going to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state from the Netherlands, that must be part of the peace process. We now have no idea what will follow after Hamas, that is not a step that I do now.”
Back to the elections: does the ChristenUnie want to rule again after a period in the opposition?
“The ChristenUnie must grow if we want to go into a coalition. With five chamber seats, all the utmost of a small party was demanded to be able to wear coalition distribution. The government’s participation is not the case with three seats, then modesty fits.”
SeriesInterviews with list leaders