Micky Besenherz appears in countless media, he entertains columns in “Zeit”, “Sueddeutsche” and “Stern”. For TV, he is active as a moderator of the WDR talk show “Kölner Treff”, and is also known for the satirical texts, which he puts the moderator: inside the RTL jungle camp. “Apocalypse and filter coffee”, “Football MML” and “Friendly Fire” are its ongoing podcasts. Reason enough to talk to him in detail.
ME: While we are talking, you are in Singapore at the airport. A so-called stop-over on the way from Australia to Germany. This is because you were again working as an author for the RTL jungle camp. Therefore, before we get started: Is it the same for you every year or always very different?
Micky Beisenherz: I can’t say that it is always different – but I found it particularly interesting this year. This was due to the fact that more diverse stories were shown in the camp. For example, with Pierre Sanoussi-Bliss we had a really great finalist. I was particularly pleased for him that he got that far.
That’s right, it shouldn’t just have stuck with you. But now into the topic: When did you perceive podcasts as a phenomenon?
That must have been at the end of the two thousands when I still used it very intensely, so when you also laboriously read your albums hand -handed for your iPod – and bought CDs for it … There was the feature “podcast” there at some point, I couldn’t find much in this feed at the time, I can remember Harald Schmidt, among other things, who regularly cast for Apple. Of course with audible contempt, because Harald Schmidt also likes to distance himself from things with which he certainly did not make money badly. And the SWR fed its talk show “People” as a podcast very early. It was a public law podcast-the acts were actually early … So I am-and we were at the jungle camp again-walking along the beach of Kingscliff in Australia 15 years ago, “People” with Wolfgang Heim listened to me, as he had with Niklas Frank, the son of a Nazi henchmen, a conversation about coping with the past. Nice punch line that this Wolfgang Heim hired with us later after the pension at the SWR and hosted the podcast on Sunday at “Apocalypse and Filter coffee”.
It took it until your first own podcast. That was “Friendly Fire” with Oliver Polak 2017.
Yes, that started with the football podcast “MML” at the same time. I am very Laberaffin, but it was also the subject of podcast as with many things in my life: I didn’t think of it myself. Ultimately, both projects went back to the ideas of others – so it pulled me in rather than I had initiated it.
You operate a number of podcasts and have many playing areas at all. Are you trying to avoid repetitions or may the anecdote, which are rotating multiple rotating, is also part of the podcast as a feel -good medium?
If possible, I try to avoid repetition, but of course that doesn’t always work. With a podcast that deals with news, you naturally have the advantage that you are played by always new events. Accordingly, the risk of repetition is not as high as if you talk about the defeat of a team for the third time in a football podcast for the third time. Basically, the emergence of stories that have already been told can also be likeable. Podcast lives not only from the information, but above all from bond. This also distinguishes the medium from television. On TV you think faster: “Oh, only repetitions are running here” – in the meantime you are looking for them a bit at the podcast, because there is a lot going on here about your own affection for the protagonist: inside. According to the motto: “She recently told that … yes, so she is just!”
The family reimbursement of podcasts comes into play. If you sit with mom for coffee on Sundays, you don’t always hear new stories.
Exactly. When Sassan Nisassi tells me in the “Rolling Stone” podcast “Voluntary film control” for the fifth time that Kevin Costner had a strand of successful films in the early nineties, I certainly will not get upset about it. Rather, I get the feeling that I just find my way around very well in their podcast world.
Sounds cozy. But you are not only a podcast host yourself, but have also been a guest in countless others. What makes a good podcast for you, what is bad?
I am actually concerned with love and affection. If I hear that someone really uses this on their topic, then the chance is great that I will stay there. And of course, a little joke, esprit and surprising thoughts are not wrong either. What brings me out is such a total predictability. And if there is a communication in exhausting insider jokes right from the start, you feel quickly excluded and not meant, unless you are already part of the in-crowd. I have also written to one of my favorite podcasts that if you don’t finally buy clever micros, I will soon no longer have any listeners.
The Corona period fueled an immense boom in podcasts-how is it today? Does the hype offset?
I realize that this gold digging mood is over. Four years ago or so, Spotify gave everyone who owned more than 500 listeners. That is a thing of the past. The advertising revenues have also decreased significantly, the market is much more competitive today. At the same time, you also have to see that around 50 or 60 percent of all Germans have not yet come into contact with podcasts. So it should not be underestimated how much potential can still be achieved.
Good keyword: How do you earn money with podcasts?
Of course, this depends on the range, the greater it is, the easier it is a monetization. “Apocalypse and filter coffee” has great distribution and we can see what you want to advertise, which companies you want to get into conversation. But for example at “Friendly Fire” with Oliver Polak, when we still did it for the podcast company Studio Bummens, the numbers were also good – but the thing was still heavier to market. You can’t fool yourself. There is no area that is as over -frequent as the Laberpodcast of two men. You have to fall into an arge hybris if you think just because I now sit down with my buddy, it will be a self -held.
But a few euros are already staying?
(laughs) Yes, luckily! Because we also have a few very good producers that we pay properly. Therefore, some euros have to flow for such projects so that they can be possible in the first place.
This is a cost factor that goes out to the countless homemade podcasts-they often lack the greater relevance.
I also like to hear such podcasts myself – and mostly I only notice after a while: “Damn it, they don’t have any advertising at all?” They sometimes do this for years and with weekly consequences for fun. And for the community you have built up. Such a lived passion already inspires me.
Another trend is currently that many podcasts are looking for small and large stages. How do you think about it? You have already done that – of course – yourself.
This is an interesting expansion. With “Apocalypse and Filter coffee” we went to the audience and late night show. However, one should be aware that a podcast audience ultimately also wants to see the podcast on stage. You don’t need a unicycle driver or any additional music acts. The spectators go the most when you put “regulars”, ie regular guests or hosts of the podcast. You can quickly get back to this community idea. The more the live for everyone feels after class reunions, the more correct you are.
Do you think this boom is permanent?
I currently see nothing that speaks against the trend. However, I hope that this will not be at the expense of music acts. So that fewer people go to concerts through the many stage podcasts. If so, the podcaster should clear the place for those who really belong in these event shops.
Podcast talks are also popular because they create immediacy. At best, hosts and guests speak to their listeners: inside. But that can also be deceptive. That you can easily get something out and make individual sentences to headlines and then fly around your ears. Does that play a role for you?
Effective you can only protect yourself from something like that by not making a podcast. Felix Lobrecht and Tommi Schmitt from “Mixed Hack” have experienced a really malicious shitstorm because of the statement that high schools should be abolished in favor of comprehensive schools. But now the reverse Warhol principle can apply here: everyone gets their 15 minutes of shitstorm at some point, which ultimately becomes more eul. Nevertheless, it is advisable to carefully choose his words in podcasts. Otherwise you are Thomas Gottschalk, who has one nasty saying after the other in his with Mike Krüger-but only to see himself as a victim and set his own podcast when his thick jokes come across a part of the audience. I didn’t understand. You can pass past each other very well in your parallel public.
Have you already had your own experiences?
Shitstorms? Based on my podcasts? I don’t believe. But who knows. In the end we are talking about something …
Do you pursue podcasts about music?
In any case! “Reflector” by Jan Müller, for example, or “Music is Trumpf” with Till Hoheneder and Henning Wehland.
It’s a shame that because of the unexplained copyright situation, podcasts practically no music.
This is actually a very frustrating topic for my wife Nikki (Hassan-Nia-note of the A.) with which I put together “apocalypse and filter coffee”. For years I would always like to play a song at the end of our podcast. Every time a new, special song to ride out. But without the clarification between streaming providers and GEMA this is not possible – I would even accept financial losses if I could simply bring a bit on the end of the podcast that we are on and not everyone knows. Something between Betterov, Boygenius or Sam Vance-Law … to be able to give something like that, that would be the perfect addition to a podcast. Until yesterday I would have called Lola Young, but since Dieter Bohlen used her “Messy” in his Insta stories, it has been contaminated badly. Tragic.