During the NATO summit in The Hague, cyber security and the fight against disinformation is a priority for Dutch security services. Because soldiers and diplomats of the Western Alliance are regularly targeted by hackers that are affiliated with the Russian spy services. This was apparent, for example, in the run-up to the NATO summit in Lithuania in 2023, when pro-Russian hackers tried to infiltrate the networks and crucial infrastructure of dozens of NATO member states.
In addition to cyber attacks, Russia also spreads disinformation on a large scale to undermine Western support for Ukrainian and to influence discussions. Around the NATO summit in the US last year, Hackers shared false press releases from NATO. In response to the storm of disinformation, NATO started after the last top with the distribution of what the Alliance calls “accurate information” via social media, its own website and campaigns.
“During this NATO summit we will see a wave of disinformation again,” Pekka Kallioniemi, a Finnish expert in the field of social media and online disinformation, who has grown into a prominent critic of Russian propaganda on social media in recent years. He is best known for his so-called ‘Vatnik Soups’: threads on X or videos on YouTube in which he discusses certain pro-Russian propagandatactics and (Western) people who help to spread this propaganda, consciously or unconsciously. With that, he at a rapid pace has gathered more than 150,000 followers, as well as a diplomatic distinction of the Lithuanian government.
The 43-year-old Kallioniemi was a post-doctoral researcher for years investigating information at the University of Tampere, a city in Finland. But his activities on social media took more and more of his time. At the beginning of this year he decided to stop his work in front of the university and to fully focus on Vatnik Soup. He founded a company that deals with making and distributing these videos and articles on social media. The Finn hopes to pay for the company with a subsidy from the European Union.
The list of persons to whom Kallioniemi devotes a ‘Vatnik’ is getting longer and longer. A part has been brought together in a book that was recently published by a small Danish publishing house. In ‘Vatniks’, by the way, only figures that are directly affiliated with the Russian government, such as the Russian TV propagandist Vladimir Solovyov or the former Russian Minister of Defense Sergej Sjojgoe. The term includes almost anyone who, according to Kallioniemi, proclaims or sands a pro-Russian position. The British comedian Russell Brand, the deceased Italian ex-president Silvio Berlusconi, and Hungarian President Viktor Orban have all been the subject of a ‘Vatnik’. According to Kallioniemi Geert Wilders and Thierry Baudet, in the Netherlands are under that term.
You call these people ‘Vatniks’, which means that they proclaim the same ‘pro-Russian’ narratives. Where does that narrative come from? And how are they influenced to push it?
“The Kremlin has what I usually call ‘spindoctors’. They actually come with a few main stories, often that is a distortion of history, or pure nonsense. For example, it can be about Ukrainian Nazis, or biological laboratories preparing a chemical war. Such stories are then spread throughout the Nepaccounts. People, then the power of those stories only increases. “
Can you explain how someone adopts such a Russian narrative?
“The fake accounts and bots ensure a complex interplay on social media of journalists, experts, people and opinions. You gradually create a system of doubt, so that people no longer know what the truth is and who they should believe. And in the midst of those chaos, certain people then prefer a simple explanation and easy solution for complicated problems. Azov battalion in Russian story completely skipped and reduced to the ‘Nazis’ label.
Why did you start after the Russian invasion of Ukraine with ‘Vatnik Soup’?
“Just like everyone else, I was shocked by the invasion. I immediately felt that I had to do something. Since I have a lot of experience on social media, I created a Twitter account. I saw that some people always proclaimed the same stories: misinformance that striking similarities showed. I did small studies, first in my own country finland. I never expected that my threads would also be in particular also to get to be in particular. Soup ‘to be expanded internationally. “
Why were the Ukrainian reactions important in particular?
“Usually comes the best feedback from the people who have seen or experienced the Russian aggression themselves. They see mistakes the fastest. In addition, positive reactions from Georgia, for example, are every kind of country that threatens to become a Russian Marionet, always good. It is a signal that you are doing something important.”
You are mainly active on X, which has become a platform since the takeover by Elon Musk where extreme right-wing or pro-Russian voices dominate. Why are you still there?
“I want to be where the discussion is being conducted. And that is still on X, despite the fact that the platform has become more toxic and more toxic in recent years. I can still be meaningful and a change. Many people have left the platform for Bluesky, for example, there is no disagreement, no discussion. Post and respond to the posts of others. “
Have you ever been the target of Russian disinformation yourself?
“Certainly, that’s usually the case, it’s part of the work. As soon as someone speaks out hard against Russian narratives, the person becomes target.
“The disinformation that is directed against me could, however, get worse. There are now a few messages from me in small pro-Russian circles on social media that I have never written before. In addition, I am regularly threatened. The most stressful are the lawsuits that have been tightened against me. That’s how Kim Dotcom complained, a German entrepreneur to whom I was dedicated, but we were dedicated to x. I slept badly. “
On Tuesday an important NATO summit starts, in which, among other things, the defense travels of the Member States are on the agenda. Do you expect another peak of Russian disinformation during the top?
“They will do the same as with earlier NATO tops in any case: flood the internet with a wave of incorrect stories. Perhaps there will be a few new narratives about the war in Ukraine. The most important newest development is probably that Russia will try to shift the focus from Ukraine to the Middle East. The bombardments between Israeli and Burgers is coming out of Israian and Burgers. Van Ukraine.
“Incidentally, it will be easier every year to spread convincing fake news. In the coming years, it will be a wild time in that regard. AI (artificial intelligence) will be getting better and better, so that the Russians can also handle it. Already on social media platforms such as Tiktok or X that it is sometimes difficult to make a real news that is made of NEP, that is made from making that is made of make that made of making that made of making that made of making that made of making that made of making that made of making of making that made of making that by making that makes real journalists that made by making that made of making of make that made of make -up that made from making of making real journalists there by making that is made of making real journalists that made by making real journalists that made by making real journalists that made by making real journalists that that made by a real journal. I am really worried about. ”